Trust me it has to be o-ringed!!! You know I don't think Samcoe even rides a DS 650!? There are some very important and extensive things that have to be done!! After tearing into my motor 4 times it is finally done and kicking A$$! Raced and beat a 727 Raptor this weekend! It still needs a little dialing in though. Here is what you are going to need to do if you don't want any issues after putting it together.

1. Ask Samcoe if he has the NEW!!!! PISTON!!!! He was supposed to have JE MAKE!!!! If not you will have to modify the piston to fit the head.

2. Do not use the Tri metal gasket with the O-Ring setup!!

3. Drill out the head and cylinder to a 10mm 1.5 pitch thread hole!! This allows to put even torque all the way around the head. You will need cap screw allen head bolts and washers!! Grade 12.9!!! not 8.8!! 8.8 will pull thru! Also you will need to build a special tool to get at the back side head bolt. You need to find a 8mm allen wrench and cut it down to about a 1/2 inch long, then you can use a 3/8 drive 8mm socket to tighten up that bolt. You will need to pull off the oil sender to get to the bolt. Be careful when re-installing the sender they twist off real easy! ( Found out the hard way)! ALSO VERY IMPORTANT!!!!! Check the deck height of the piston to the cylinder!!!! It need to be at .000 or below!!!!!! Just buy some bolts long enough to tighen the jug down just a little on the base gasket. Measure the deck height and then you will need to take in to account .002 squish from the base gasket when it is torqued down. The stock base gasket is .020 thick, when you torque the head down the base gasket will squish to .018 thick.

4. Use a copper head gasket!!! Make sure that you Anneal it first!! I hope I spelled that right! Basiclly you just heat it up until it starts to turn red an then throw it in water, quick! It makes the gasket more pliable and it will conform to head and cylinder better. MAke sure to clean it off with Scotch Brite or Steel wool before putting it in.

5. Use Three Bond or Yamabond!!! Put a thin coat on the cylinder the head and Both sides of the gasket. It set's up fast so don't dottle!!!!

6. Torque all 4 stay bolts and all 4 head bolt to 50 ft. lbs!! Start at the stay bolts first and go in a cross hatch pattern. Tighten all 8 to 20 ft. lbs initialy, then go up in 5 pound increments.

7. Put the rest of the motor together and let it set overnight. Do not put in any fluids yet!! About 12 hours should be more than enough.

8. Just a reminder!!! Whom ever installs the sleave make sure that damn thing is pressed all the way down!!, to against the aluminum!!!!!!! I will try and post some pictures tommorow.

IF you have any questions about this let me know and Iwill try and help you out. GOOD LUCK!!!!

 

My friend removed his jug. I got skeptical last minute and decided to hold off until I see how his is put together. My friend mentioned of the horror stories and of course Sam Coe told him everything is fine and it will compliment his Stage III Nicely. Sam again said it doesn't have to be O-Ringed. Now I know my friend. He can be knucklehead. I'm going to print that info and show it to him. If it blows on him I'm going to say "See I told ya so".

I really wanted this kit but after reading what you posted sounds like it's a HUGE thing, much more involved than I had hoped. My buddy I'm sure isn't going to get it O-Ringed. It would be nice if the kit came with all that info and the parts to get it going. One thing my friend did say is that he is going to torque his down over the specs the manual states. Let's see what happens when he gets it all back. Angry I appriciate the info you have given me. I will see and let everyone know what my bud goes thru.

 

Angry: Glad to hear you got it up and running.

Are you still running the 15/43 gearing?

Where did you beat the 727? (A long Sand Hill?)

What gear were you in at the end? What kind of RPm were you at?

Thanks, trying to figure the best gear combo for myself.

 

Well DuneMe I tried the 15/43 which I normally run, but I never really go to race anyone with it except for Jiminok. I was getting him by about 3or 4 bike lengths until my clutch was acting goofy. So I went back and put on a 16 front tooth and tried again my Rpm's didn't change any so I think maybe I could go one more tooth in the back like to a 42 or something. Jim's bike has a screwed up 45mm carb so we didn't get to race again so I could see how big of a difference my gearing made. He had to run his stock carb for the rest of the day so he couldn't stay up with me like before. Let me tell you something anyone who says that a 45mm carb doesn't make a big difference is an IDIOT! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] Jim probably lost, well, I don't know for sure, but several bike length's with the stock carb.

We raced up the long hill on the right side of comp. He was starting to pull on me at the top but we were pretty much dead even. I could get him out of th hole and he would stay right with me about 1/4 bike length to my side, then he would start gradually reeling me in but by the time we were at the top of the hill we ran out of space. In another hundred feet he whould have taken me. You have to remember though I way 280 lbs, so I had about a 150Lb disadvantage between bike weight and myself.

I was in third gear pulling about between 7500 and 7900 Rpm. Peculiar thing, this bike doesn't like to rev very high. I probably whould benefit from a different pipe. Plus, my jetting is hard to figure out with the fuel I was running at the time.

 

So, when you raced the 727 Raptor you had the 16tooth sprocket on?

I am wondering if I can pull 4th gear up the hill if I go to the 15/43 combo. It would make second gear starts easier (since I seem to have a bog in the low RPM's - need to get it on the dyno to tune still.)

 

Yep, I had the 16 tooth sprocket on.

 

i tried the 16 43 and it lost a little out of the hole but on a long hill it seemed it might pull longer. also tried 14-43 and that didn't work with my tires well at all. it reved out to third well but then it wouldn't pull thru third

 

Yeah, I think you are on to something there sandman. I got the same rpm with the 15 as I did with the 16. I know in drag cars with big block motors that pull a lot of torque they are faster with a taller gear. Most guy's in street modified whould normally like to run a 4.10 ratio. But a friend of mine told me to run 3.23 ratio and I said are you Crazy! I will get killed! He said give it a try, so I did and my hole shot suffered a little bit but I smoked everybody thru the last half of the 1/4 mile. I think this is were the torque comes in. These engines like to pull harder under extreme loads. Hence the taller gearing you give it the harder it will pull. For giggles I think I would like to try a 17 tooth on front or drop down to a 42 or 41 tooth rear and see what happens. According to the gearing calculator you pick up almost 2 mph per tooth on the rear sprockets.

 

i'm starting to see tire spin as a issue also, to much not good not enough not good, i basically came to the point that you must have i think it is going to take a bore to get over the edge, plus maybe the head with valves. also am finding that it doesn't matter there is always another day. but on trails the piston and cams really make the ds a lot of fun. it pulls wheelies great that is the big difference on the 45 for me. the 16 front still worked great there also. well sounds like you had fun angry and hope that clutch thing works out you might try sanding the plates, plus i have been told to do the friction plates also, i guess they can get glazed thus the slip under load. there is a thickness measurement in the manual, it is 27.5mm minimum thickness whole package.

 

Okay Angry,

My bud called me today and I told him get his @ss over my place to read your post before he sends out his jug. He will be by later and I will see if it convinces him to get it or not.

I just got a 15t front sprocket in the mail today. I can see why the DS is much heavier than most quads. Everything on the DS is beefy. I changed my Raptor sprocket last week and I can say the DS sprocket I got in the mail today is clearly AT LEAST 2x the weight of the Raptor's.

I hope the 15t will get me better launches and make it wheelie a bit easier. I have difficulty popping the front tires on my DS (I weigh about 175-180 pounds).