Panther/ATA-110 electrical issues
#1
06-11-2015, 09:23 PM
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Panther/ATA-110 electrical issues
Ok so i volunteered to get my lil cousins 4wheeler running again after it sat growed up in a giant blackberry bush for the last X-amout of years (long enough for all the plastic to rot off) and i finally got it running an it runs like a top still but none of the switches are working.
I had to bypass the parking brake switch to get it running but the key dont work and push button start dont work (had to jump the solenoid) in fact i took the key switch off cause it was just a sloppy rusty wallowed out mess. (still runs with all wires disconnected from key)
Now this key switch has 4 wires Red, Green, Black and Black/White stripe now according to diagrams and a very well made post on here Red and Green are sposed to be separate but on this Red and Green are crimped together on same contact???? and the two blacks have their own contact and the start button does nothing even with the brake switch bypassed.
This 4wheeler was never tampered with or rode hard in fact it still looked new when it was parked. Only thing i found wrong was the fuse at the solenoid had been wrapped in tin foil and i changed it then ran in the house for a couple minutes and came back and it was blown but i think it was cause the hot wire and the kill wire for the key switch had fell over and touched but im not sure?
This whole key and start button issue is the only thing keeping it from being ridden again now.
I had to bypass the parking brake switch to get it running but the key dont work and push button start dont work (had to jump the solenoid) in fact i took the key switch off cause it was just a sloppy rusty wallowed out mess. (still runs with all wires disconnected from key)
Now this key switch has 4 wires Red, Green, Black and Black/White stripe now according to diagrams and a very well made post on here Red and Green are sposed to be separate but on this Red and Green are crimped together on same contact???? and the two blacks have their own contact and the start button does nothing even with the brake switch bypassed.
This 4wheeler was never tampered with or rode hard in fact it still looked new when it was parked. Only thing i found wrong was the fuse at the solenoid had been wrapped in tin foil and i changed it then ran in the house for a couple minutes and came back and it was blown but i think it was cause the hot wire and the kill wire for the key switch had fell over and touched but im not sure?
This whole key and start button issue is the only thing keeping it from being ridden again now.
#2
06-12-2015, 12:28 AM
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[snip...] I had to bypass the parking brake switch to get it running but the key dont work and push button start dont work (had to jump the solenoid) in fact i took the key switch off cause it was just a sloppy rusty wallowed out mess. (still runs with all wires disconnected from key)
Yes, that indicates you have an AC powered CDI. These run off power generated from the stator. The battery or any of the 12 volt system is not involved at all in running the quad. But how are you shutting it off? Normally when you turn off the ignition it shorts two wires together which kills the spark via the kill switch input to the CDI. Are you using the handlebar kill switch instead? But you say the switches are all bad...
[snip...] Now this key switch has 4 wires Red, Green, Black and Black/White stripe now according to diagrams and a very well made post on here Red and Green are sposed to be separate but on this Red and Green are crimped together on same contact???? and the two blacks have their own contact and the start button does nothing even with the brake switch bypassed.
Yes, they are classic colors:
Red = fused 12 volts from the battery
Grn = ground
Blk = the 12 volts from the red wire switched on and off which the ignition switch
Blk/Wht = kill switch input to the CDI
Your ignition switch is two completely separate switches ganged together on a common key shaft. When the ignition switch is off:
A) The red and black wires are not connected (switch 1 of 2).
B) The green and black/white wires are shorted together (switch 2 of 2)
When you turn the ignition switch on:
A) The red and black wires are shorted together (switch 1 of 2)
B) The green and black/white are not connected (switch 2 of 2)
When the ignition is off the kill switch wire is grounded - killing the spark.
When the ignition is on 12 volts from the battery (through the fuse) is applied to the black wire and on to the starter/interlock circuitry.
If you short red and green that will short the battery voltage to ground. This is not right, and will blow the fuse.
This 4wheeler was never tampered with or rode hard in fact it still looked new when it was parked. Only thing i found wrong was the fuse at the solenoid had been wrapped in tin foil and i changed it then ran in the house for a couple minutes and came back and it was blown but i think it was cause the hot wire and the kill wire for the key switch had fell over and touched but im not sure?
Red and green wires tied together at the ignition switch, and tin foil wrapped around the fuse looks like sure fire evidence of tampering by someone who clearly does not know what they are doing...
Disconnect the red and green wires and replace the fuse with a 7 amp fuse (no more than that). Does the fuse blow now?
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06-12-2015, 01:35 PM
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Yes, that indicates you have an AC powered CDI. These run off power generated from the stator. The battery or any of the 12 volt system is not involved at all in running the quad. But how are you shutting it off? Normally when you turn off the ignition it shorts two wires together which kills the spark via the kill switch input to the CDI. Are you using the handlebar kill switch instead? But you say the switches are all bad...
Red and green wires tied together at the ignition switch, and tin foil wrapped around the fuse looks like sure fire evidence of tampering by someone who clearly does not know what they are doing...
Disconnect the red and green wires and replace the fuse with a 7 amp fuse (no more than that). Does the fuse blow now?
Disconnect the red and green wires and replace the fuse with a 7 amp fuse (no more than that). Does the fuse blow now?
The switch i think has been replaced cause its a metal lawn mower style and i found a black plastic nut farther down the harness that most likely went to the original switch. Fuse hasn't blown since i replaced it again (i also taped the ends of the green and black/white wires)
It appears to have the remote key fob box on it....would that have any thing to do with the starte button not working?
#4
06-13-2015, 10:55 PM
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Unplug the remote key fob box if you suspect it is causing problems. Then it is out of the picture.
But on a properly wired quad it adds a new feature in that you now have to shut off the quad from the handlebar kill switch - the ignition switch no longer works.
This does not apply in your case because the ignition switch isn't working and/or wired right.
But on a properly wired quad it adds a new feature in that you now have to shut off the quad from the handlebar kill switch - the ignition switch no longer works.
This does not apply in your case because the ignition switch isn't working and/or wired right.
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06-15-2015, 10:31 PM
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#6
06-17-2015, 12:38 AM
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Below is something I wrote up a long time ago describing the whole remote control wiring and history. Let's see if it still works... I don't seem to be ale to access my photobucket account anymore. Scroll to the bottom of the list and you should see pictures and text.
In the first picture note the point where the a wire is listed as "*cut*". This diagram is meant for adding a full blown remote to an existing 110cc quad. What you need to do to restore the kill function on the ignition switch is to reconnect those two wires. On the ignition switch the wire in question is almost always black with a white stripe, the one from the 9 pin remote is variable. But the position on the connector is fixed. Find the wire at that position on the remote connector (using the connector latch tab as a key) and hook it to the kill switch wire on the ignition switch.
That should do it...
In the first picture note the point where the a wire is listed as "*cut*". This diagram is meant for adding a full blown remote to an existing 110cc quad. What you need to do to restore the kill function on the ignition switch is to reconnect those two wires. On the ignition switch the wire in question is almost always black with a white stripe, the one from the 9 pin remote is variable. But the position on the connector is fixed. Find the wire at that position on the remote connector (using the connector latch tab as a key) and hook it to the kill switch wire on the ignition switch.
That should do it...
Here is a diagram showing how the generic remote module is wired up for 110cc (and many other) chinese quads using the 5 pin AC powered CDI.
Some history: This style remote module design has been around for decades. It was used originally on motorcycles and has since been cross applied to these small chinese quads. The diagram above shows the complete set of remote start/kill/alarm module functions as it was orignally designed. They provided not only the ability to kill the engine remotely, but also allowed remote starting of the quad regardless of whether the ignition switch was on or off. And there was an alarm that drove a siren and flashed the turn signal indicators.
As these modules became more and more targeted to quads they started to drop features that aren't really all that applicable. These small quads don't have turn signals, so that feature was the first to go. The alarm is annoying, and if you think about it, the ability to remotely start up a quad even when the ignition switch is off is kind of scary. So these feature are often left out too. As these features got dropped the remote modules still used the same 9 pin wiring harness connector, but they just left the wires for the unused features off.
Here is a couple pictures for a simple remote kill switch module:
Note how it only uses 4 pins on the standard connector and three wires into the module. The other pins are empty. For your quad without a remote connector you would have to wire the module directly into the wiring harness, but that would require only three wires, so it would be fairly straightforward to do.
That fourth wire from the module that does not go to the connector is the receive antenna. It just dangles.
Here is a couple pictures for a more complex module:
Note that all the pins on the standard connector are wired up, so it supports all the functions - even flashing the turn signals when the alarm goes off - but since a typical chinese kid quad doesn't have turn signals there would just be no wire connections on the harness side of the connector. Once again this function is unused.
If you don't have a remote module connector in your wiring harness you'll have to manually wire the remote module into your harness using the above diagram. Note that to allow the remote to start up the quad with the ignition switch off you will have to cut the kill switch wire at the ignition switch and wire separate wires from the module to each side of the cut wire.
If the remote kill function is all you want then the first option is the easiest since it is only three wires to hook up: Fused 12 volt power, ground, and the kill switch connection.
One final consideration on remote modules. They are powered up all the time and drawing current from the battery. From what I've read, some draw a fair amount of current and can draw down your battery in just a few weeks. Others are maybe not so bad. Thus when you store your quad for more than a few days it is imperative that you keep your battery on a maintenance charger (which you should be doing anyway) to keep your battery from from being damaged by sitting around partially discharged.
Some history: This style remote module design has been around for decades. It was used originally on motorcycles and has since been cross applied to these small chinese quads. The diagram above shows the complete set of remote start/kill/alarm module functions as it was orignally designed. They provided not only the ability to kill the engine remotely, but also allowed remote starting of the quad regardless of whether the ignition switch was on or off. And there was an alarm that drove a siren and flashed the turn signal indicators.
As these modules became more and more targeted to quads they started to drop features that aren't really all that applicable. These small quads don't have turn signals, so that feature was the first to go. The alarm is annoying, and if you think about it, the ability to remotely start up a quad even when the ignition switch is off is kind of scary. So these feature are often left out too. As these features got dropped the remote modules still used the same 9 pin wiring harness connector, but they just left the wires for the unused features off.
Here is a couple pictures for a simple remote kill switch module:
Note how it only uses 4 pins on the standard connector and three wires into the module. The other pins are empty. For your quad without a remote connector you would have to wire the module directly into the wiring harness, but that would require only three wires, so it would be fairly straightforward to do.
That fourth wire from the module that does not go to the connector is the receive antenna. It just dangles.
Here is a couple pictures for a more complex module:
Note that all the pins on the standard connector are wired up, so it supports all the functions - even flashing the turn signals when the alarm goes off - but since a typical chinese kid quad doesn't have turn signals there would just be no wire connections on the harness side of the connector. Once again this function is unused.
If you don't have a remote module connector in your wiring harness you'll have to manually wire the remote module into your harness using the above diagram. Note that to allow the remote to start up the quad with the ignition switch off you will have to cut the kill switch wire at the ignition switch and wire separate wires from the module to each side of the cut wire.
If the remote kill function is all you want then the first option is the easiest since it is only three wires to hook up: Fused 12 volt power, ground, and the kill switch connection.
One final consideration on remote modules. They are powered up all the time and drawing current from the battery. From what I've read, some draw a fair amount of current and can draw down your battery in just a few weeks. Others are maybe not so bad. Thus when you store your quad for more than a few days it is imperative that you keep your battery on a maintenance charger (which you should be doing anyway) to keep your battery from from being damaged by sitting around partially discharged.
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