I found this is one of the other forums. He does have a point I hate to admit.


"Honda screws the ATV rider and gives all the technology to the dirt bike riders, again.

Here are the facts:
42mm CV Carb = Poor throttle response & slow revving
Longer Stroke motor = Slow revving
Detuned Cam Shaft = Low Performance
Steel Valves = Lower RPM Motor vs. CRF450 Titanium
Pro Link Rear Suspension = Less Travel - poor performance
Steel Frame - Vs. Aluminum CRF Frame

You Honda guys may talk trash about Yamaha but at least they consider us ATV riders equal to the bike guys. "

 

Traditions are hard to break.

 

For some stupid reason the government decided that there should be power and top speed limits on atvs, while dirtbikes could have as much power as you could imagine and easily be sold on the market. Why are we as ATVers treated so badly? That goes to show how much these government divisons know before they make a law. Lets not blame it on Honda.

 

Why dont you let it come out first for the real "facts". There will be plenty of mods (honda is already working on that) to make it powerful enough to keep us satisfied. How many ppl on these forums have bone stock quads?? Not many.

Also, HondabestOnEarth you got a good point!

RoughRider01

 

Thanks

 

If thats the case, they are all screwing us. Honda probably does allot more in sales from motorcycles. Like all manufactures, I am sure they follow the money.

 

Calif. is the ONLY state where dirt bikes outsell ATV's. (There is a very well entrenched dirt bike culture out here, that will never go away.) I don't have the stats at hand, but ATV's OUTSELL EVERYTHING ELSE COMBINED (dirt bikes, street bikes, scooters, etc.). That means we ATVers are subsidizing the R&D of all the other lines!! Doesn't seem like we get much in return?????

I think the manufacturers keep all the ATV's pretty tame for liability reasons. You hurt yourself and sue them, they will go to court and say how you hopped the bike up way beyond stock. They have to protect themselevs!

 

Right on the money, reconranger. Ask someone at the factories why ATV's are so far behind in technology compared to the motorcycles and they'd probably say "Well, most of the tech on ATV's comes from motorcycles, so just be thankful!"

Well, hell yeah we get technology from the bikes, but where do they get the money to spend on R&D, million dollar transports, nice clean uniforms and 70+ grand salaries? It sure doesn't all come from motorcycles. It comes from the thousands of people who spent hard earned money on ATV's with 1970's and 1980's technology for the past two decades.

Yeah, they've made some progress in recent years, but they haven't put near enough back into the sport of ATVing that they've taken out. When I can walk through the pits of any ATV racing event and see 5 or 6 factory prepared quads from every manufacture, I'll give them a nod of my hat, until then I suggest they keep working on it.

 

I knew they sold allot of ATV's but didn't realize they outsold motorcycles. I have wondered why a 500 ATV does not have the same power as a 500 motorcycle.

 

Are we really getting screwed or is some misinformation being passed and big deals being made of little deals... Let's have a look...

**42mm CV Carb = Poor throttle response & slow revving

People have been posting this assumption lately. The truth is Honda has never put a CV carb on a sport/race ATV and likely will not start on the TRX450R. The carb family used on the 400EX, 300EX, 250X, 350X, etc are butterfly carbs, but they **ARE NOT** CV carbs. Big difference. This family of Keihin carb is MUCH better than the Mikuni BSR used on the Raptor, DS650, and LTZ400, and incorporates a cable operated slide, not a vacuum operated slide like the BSR series.

Performance will not be as sharp as an equal sized FCR, but this carb is larger than the FCR used on the bike & will offer similar performance with slightly reduced throttle response.

Why didn't Honda just stick with the FCR? Can't answer that... If you don't like the carb they provided, it only costs $330 to bring it up to full CRF spec.


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**Longer Stroke motor = Slow revving

We're talking a 2.7mm longer stroke here... This is by no means going to noticibly make the engine "slower revving". In fact, it's only 1.4mm longer than a Yamaha YZ450F.

This is one of the small tweaks that Honda makes that sets them apart from other manufacturers. Other manufacturers would not have taken the time or effort to do the R&D to find how much extra torque is needed for the engine to operate best in a heavier quad chassis.

Take this as a good thing. Since the stroke is longer and the bore is 2mm smaller than a CRF, it's likely that the CRF cylinder will bolt right on, giving you an instant, 470cc stroker engine with factory parts.

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**Detuned Cam Shaft = Low Performance

Again, this is typical of practically all ATVs - they slightly mild down the cam to provide better bottom end for quad use. This will not be a dramatic difference like the quad having a utility quad cam profile vs a full CRF design. Take the 400EX for instance, there are very minor profile differences between the 400EX cam and the XR400 cam. Certainly not enough to consider one "low performance" and one "high performance". Changes were minor tweaks.

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**Steel Valves = Lower RPM Motor vs. CRF450 Titanium

One word.... Reliability.

It's the sad truth that the typical ATV owner do not take as good care of his machine as the typical MX bike owner. ATVs have more load against the engine, get more abuse, and on average, get less maintenance. Sad but true.

Yamaha may have left titanium exhaust valves in their YFZ, but how much power do you really think that adds? Would you rather have a fraction of a HP, or a more reliable valve train?

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**Pro Link Rear Suspension = Less Travel - poor performance

The CRF450R is equipped with "Pro-Link" suspension. Don't believe me? Check Honda's website. Pro-link is a generic term that refers to any Honda rear linkage suspension design.

Linkage does not increase travel, it controls how progressive the suspension action is.

In the past few weeks it's become very fashionable to "bash" Honda's rear linkage. Why so few complaints before then? Haven't the 250R and 400EX been the standard to which all others have been judged for years now? All the sudden their suspension design is crap? Has anyone ridden a TRX450R and know for a fact that it's rear suspension remains totally unchanged?

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**Steel Frame - Vs. Aluminum CRF Frame

Aluminum will not reduce weight or do anything but really increase cost and make the frame more difficult to repair than steel. Personally I'm thankful that they used a steel frame.

Cannondale tried an Aluminum frame and it worked pretty well for them. However, notice how heavily it was constructed. A quad frame takes much more twisting and other forces than a dirtbike and requires very heavy construction to hold up over the long term.

This means that to make a reliable aluminum frame, it typically ends up being every bit as heavy as a tubular steel frame.. What have you gained? Cost, and something you can polish - nothing more.
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Personally, I think many people had unrealistic expectations. Honda did exactly what they needed to do. Put a great engine in the best chassis in the business, and make it an easy, painless upgrade for existing racers by making key parts interchangeable.

The fact remains that this machine will be very competitive with Yamaha's YFZ450. It's likely both will have strong and weak points when compared to each other and neither quad will be perfect for everyone.