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My dealer said if i were to install it, it would have voided the free 6 month warranty. I know it doesnt matter if you yamaha guys have one, like yamahas actually going fix something thats there fault.

 

I believe you can read my previous posting and realize I am not brand loyal. If I have a problem with my Raptor, I post too get some potential help...this isn't the case for a lotta people because they do not want too smudge their favorite quad / manufacturer's good name. Misinformation often comes from the wrong interpretation..[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]. I can spot the brand loyal nad huggers 2 forums over...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img].

 

Ahh, more insults from the YFZ crowd...

I'm in the same boat as you - my TRX is my ride for racing only. However, unlike yourself, I am not an MX racer.

That being the case, the best quad for the purpose, numerous things considered - is the one that ends up in my garage. In this case I analyzed the YFZ, I decided I could afford to wait for the TRX (given it's advantages for me). After the TRX came out I made my final decision that it WAS indeed close enough to the YFZ that winning races would NOT depend on which one I was riding -whether I was going to be riding MX, TT, XC, or any of a number of other events I attend.

That being the case, the decision came down to more which had the most advantages for *me* -- not necessarily what you consider to be best for everyone. In my case, that was the TRX.

Your statement of a TRX being no advantage over an LTZ shows your serious lack of real world experience with the two & is an incredibly ignorant statement from someone who professes to be such an expert on the two.

If you had any real experience with the two you'd also know the two issues that were addressed with the TRX's rear suspension vs the 400EX that make it better. You'd also know the functional differences in it and the LTZ. You'd also know about the YFZ's rear quirk that caused an A class GNCC racer in the last event in TX to end up in the hospital with a broken back & claiming that he'll never ride a YFZ again due to this problem that he *and others* have run into.

I guess it also doesn't matter that the YFZ's swinger has to be replaced by everyone but the mildest trailrider due to it's serious breakage/twisting rate?

I'm not saying that either rear suspension is "better" than the other -but if you look at all the facts (leverage ratio's included), you'll realize that the YFZ, while good, is not the Holy Grail you make it out to be & the TRX is not simply a copy of a 400EX that can be expected to perform the same. Both are good designs that work well stock & work better modified.

I have no idea what you're talking about on singarm length - please explain in detail why the TRX's swinger length is wrong - please include real data in your response like individual tire weight, axle to peg relationships, etc. Also what type of racing it's wrong for & why that makes it wrong for everyone.

I also don't see what you're talking about with "permanent detuning"... Stock vs stock they develop the same power if you look at dyno's done by the same people & don't randomly pick dynos out of the air or ones run by someone that hasn't confirmed the throttle was opening fully on the TRX. Modified vs Modified, you will have to replace the carb on the EX - but HP potential is the same, if not slightly leaning toward the TRX.

Do you know that the TRX valve configuration flows better than the YFZ? It develops the same power with less compression (just like these engines do in the dirtbike world), and it develops more useable power than the YFZ (if we're splitting hairs), just like in the dirtbike world. This is due in part to it's head design. In the real world, the TRX is also lighter weight & doesn't suffer from the issues the YFZ does if you convert it to kick.


If you want to talk YFZ vs TRX details - a couple other issues I don't hear you guys talk about at all is front suspension leverage ratios & rake angle.

Riding position also makes a difference. For someone like myself at 6' - the TRX has a better riding position than a YFZ - that also factors in to which I chose.

As I said before - neither quad is right for everyone, neither is a bad choice for anyone wanting to go fast in their intended use. Arguments can be made both ways for either quad, but in the end, neither is a bad choice & these two are your two top choices if you want the best of the OEMs.

 

Boy......This is the most interesting topic I've read in days.

Alot of it makes no sense at all.........but interesting still the same.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]

 

RoughRider -
That is not correct, they can not void your warranty for installing the HRC kit. You have legal rights that prevent this.

If they want to deny a warranty claim - the proof of burden is on them to prove the parts installed caused the issue.

In the HRC kit the documentation says there is no warranty on kit parts themselves.

 

Both the mechanic at the dealer and I didnt really understand what the documentation in the HRC kit was trying to say. I think it was the last sentence in your post that was unclear to us when we read it in the manual. I have dealt with this mechanic before with my DS and he seemed like a cool guy so i didnt want to argue with him over this since he only charged $50 to put it in. I got the 450r and the HRC kit installed for less then the 450r msrp so it didnt matter to me. But thanks for clearing this up, I will mention this to him the next time i talk to him.

EDIT: Ok, i think i get what your saying by not warranting the kit parts themselves. Say if the cam broke or whatever, id have to pay out of my own pocket right?

 

Correct.

 

Are you Dyno racing again? :-) If the Honda makes all this more useable power you talk about then why can't it seem to beat the YFZ? I mean every review to date including private races really shows the YFZ can beat the 450R. Even heard the 440EX seems to be able to handle it. So all this Head flows more stuff is meaningless. You wrote "advantages for *me*? WHat exaclty were these? Just courious? May be the definition of advantages is the thing up for debate??
Most people don't race there bikes like you, so your out of scope in the first place. Not degrading what you do but when someone compares the 450R to the Z400 you might need to look at it from the other side of the world, the world that buys most of these bike. I think the 450R and the Z400 will be in competition against each other. Just looking at the MSRP/Features alone if the average person would go with the Z400 I bet. If they would sping the extra cash then they would opt for the YFZ450. Time will tell, but I think there is a general consensus the 450R indeed has NOT lived up to the hype. We were told DONIMATION, and if fact got something in between a YFZ450 and Z400. It's more than just the drag strip though that will help sell the YFZ. It's the FCR Carb, Electric start, Zerks on A-arms, It's a light and airy feeling, Suspension that make factory production quads of yesterday wish for, Won every review to date from every publisher and looks second to none and a price tag of 7K. It looks to me the 450 use the same tires as the Z400? True? If so, there is another area the the YFZ is way better. THese are big shoes to fill wether you like the YFZ or not. Am I biased toward the YFZ? , Yes, A little. At least I can admit it.
jarsong

 

One thing you gotta love about the Honda is the crankcase and cylinder are separated.

 

Very true. ANd also the brakes are the best. Yes even better than the YFZ.
jarsong