Well, I have tried most of the suggestions here presented, and I really think the steering has improved. No big leaps, but a gradual improvement. Maybe the PB Blaster is slowly working it's way through the bushing - or maybe it's all in my mind. I have noticed a black secretion oozing from the top of the bushing. It looks like some sort of lubricant; or it may be foreign material being flushed out by the Blaster.

I also read a post by Jake450S, very knowledgeable, on another forum- ATV Time, I think- and he was responding to another topic but mentioned that the Rubicon had a fairly large toe OUT on the front wheels. Just by looking at mine, it was obvious that he is right. It looks like a duck when you stand in front of it and look at the front wheels. Although in his post he said that this is normal, I did reduce the toe out on mine by one full turn on each tie rod end. I really think this helped, and I may reduce the toe out by another turn later, just to see if there is any more improvement. Also, I still haven't unbolted the steering arm to check the tension location.

I am gonna try to locate a used Ruby at a dealer this week to drive and compare. This may be as good as it gets, and quite frankly, it ain't as bad as it used to be. It is already much more fun to drive. I don't know exactly what to attribute it to, but it is better. Thanks to all........

 

You decreased the toe out by one full turn??[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img] If I were you I'd take a few measurements before you move it any further. The reason I'm saying this is because it may change the adjustment a lot more than you think. On the 400 Foreman, to adjust from 16 mm toed in to 16 mm toed out is about one quarter turn on both adjusters. I've been playing with mine to improve handling at higher speeds, and it's surprising how little it takes to make a big difference. Check a reliable manual, or call and ask the service dept at your local dealer how to adjust it, and what the spec should be. I have a Clymer manual for mine, and I think what they have written there is wrong, according to two Honda dealers I've spoken with.

I'm picking up a Haynes manual tomorrow from the library, and I'll see what they say. In your case, try measuring the distance between tire centers in front, then roll the quad back and measure at the same point 180 degrees away (3 and 9 o'clock positions). If it's like most Hondas, it calls for a slight toe out, for what reason I have no idea.

If it's unclear what I'm trying to explain (highly likely), just ask and I'll try to illustrate it with a few pics.

 

I did decrease it (the toe out) by one full turn each. It is still visibly toed out, though. It really was a radical toe out to start with. I will follow your measurement suggestion tomorrow. I was aware that I could screw it up, and made alignment marks on the rod ends so that I could return to the starting point if I had to. So far the steering is better and there is no pulling to either side. So I'm leaving it where it is for now, for further testing. I wonder how it would steer with neutral toe out/toe in?
Thanks.

 

I set all three of my atv's at 0 toe-in or nuetral as you say. Its amazing how much better they handle and steer. Like power steering. I did a thread a while back on here about how far out of specs the toe-in is on new quads straight off the show room floors. Mine were between two and three inches toed out the best I can remember. No way tires could last very long at that rate. I align frontends on automobiles for a living. Any thing over 1/4 in or out is excessive. My atv's handled terrible and hard to steer until I re-set them. I set mine on 0. Just straight ahead and have no handling or tire wear problems in any conditions that we have encountered riding. I run mudlite tires and they show hardly any wear after months of hard use. I have read alot of threads on here about mudlites not lasting long. They probably need to check their toe-in settings. I have 125 hours on my Foreman with the mudlites and they show hardly any wear at all.

 

Although the alignment can be a sticky subject, as long as it's close it should be fine at normal speeds. It would be interesting to know just how far JSP's was toed out. As he said, it looked like a duck from the front. Honda specs for the 400 Foreman say it should be 16 mm toed out with the weight on the suspension (verbal from two service depts). The crazy part is the tolerance... it can be plus or minus 15 mm ! So, what they're saying is, anywhere from nearly neutral to 31 mm toed out is fine. I've got to shake my head at that. It seems the only thing they don't want is toe in. Not what you would expect.

To compound it, the Clymer manual I was using had you set it with the weight off the wheels at 16 mm toed in, then when the suspension loaded, the way the geometry is the toe in would increase even more.
I had no problems in slow going, but on one trip out this winter using higher speeds, it seemed pretty unstable, wanting to dart left and right. I had checked the tire pressures first, and they were fine at about 3.5 psi.

So, with it set near 16 mm out, when I get on and the suspension compresses, it's probably close to neutral. I'm hoping to get another run in soon to see if it made any difference in handling. I have a little slack in the tie rod ends, maybe 3-4 mm at the tire diameter which shouldn't make much difference in a vehicle using tires like we do.

I've not noticed excessive tire wear in the Mud Lites, but I probably only have maybe 50 hours on mine, and that's mostly on soft surfaces. I'm happy with them in general, great tire in slippery going and in snow.

If anyone has any insight as to why Honda calls for toe out as opposed to neutral or in, I'd be interested in hearing what you know.

 

try toe in and letting go of the bars (don't really!!) and you will understand why there is a toe out

just remember when setting it that your toe usually changes as the suspension is compressed and released.

you generally never want toe in

 

Read an article on this after measuring my toe and it was 1 1/2 inches out. The article pertained to dirt track racing. The author stated that dirt track racers (cars) keep the toeout to help lead into turn. Also said with out the toe out the cars would tend to wander and be difficult to keep going in a straight line. Could be the same for ATVs.