yeah most utes are gargantian, heavy as he!! beasts. i think id like to see a REAL sport 4x4 more than a 650EX.

like previously mentioned, i just dont think honda sees the necessity in doing it - if the 450 beats the raptor already (mine will), and is doing really well in the races across the board from XC, MX, and baja- whats really the purpose?

you cant tell me that some of the raptor sales werent diverted to the YFZ when it came out... Sometimes having a too diverse product mix cannibilizes sales for your other products. you really cant be everything to everybody. you have to find out what the majority markets want and make it. and you succeed by either being efficient or an innovator. EX: dell vs apple. I hope for their sakes, the US auto makers start to see this....

if they add a 6th gear, lower first, maybe put reverse on it and GET THE HANDLING CORRECT, the 450R would be fabulous. but, hey, they may surpirse us all in september....

 

twentycharacters, you are contradicting yourself a bit. You state that the 450R is doing well in multiple racing arenas and therefore is no need for a big bore, but then state you can't be everything to everybody. That is why I think Honda should give is a little more diversity. I am sure that the YFZ has taken some sales from the Rappy, and also vice versa. On the other hand, these two models are some of Yamaha's highest volume sellers. I know the YFZ has been there best seller since its' release, and the raptor is usually number 2 or 3. Someone looking for a big bore sport quad may never even walk into a Honda dealership as it stands right now. The question is, why are they dragging heels when they could be selling units?

 

The reason we don't have a 650EX is that after the 400EX came out in 1999, Honda neglected the sport line and concentrated on developing big utilities with highly complex automatic transmissions! That's where all the R&D effort went for quite a few years, until they got surprised by the competition and had to get their sport quad R&D back on track.

It would have been a natural to just throw the XR650 engine in a 400EXish frame, but perhaps back in that day they were to concerned about lawsuits if they came out with something that powerfull?

 

I actually think it has a lot more to do with Honda being conservative as a company. It is a rare day that Honda really "wows" anyone when the new models are released. When they do release something all new, other manufacturers have often beaten them to the punch. Cases in point, the mighty 250R released a year after Suzuki's race quad, the 450R also released way after the YFZ, they redid the Rincon last year, but it is still lagging in power and engine size compared to everyone else's big bore. Honda tends to march to their own drummer, and it can be a pretty slow march indeed.

 

OK, I have decided that what I really want is the 250R back!

 

twentycharacters, you are contradicting yourself a bit. You state that the 450R is doing well in multiple racing arenas and therefore is no need for a big bore, but then state you can't be everything to everybody.
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not really a cntradiction. its just an amazing machine that has done well in these catagories as time has unfolded. if you remember though, the 450R was supposed to marketed for the MX track. then honda changed it to 'everywhere it goes, it will dominate.'

but it doesnt negate what i said about being everything to everybody and justify making every kind of bike imaginable. there is always niches, but the bigger the niche , the bigger the probability of it becoming reality. 4x4 sports are the future. believe it. you just dont hear the screams for a 650 as loud anymore since the 450R arrived...
do some still want it yes, and i would like to see it...heck i like to see any new bike come out!! its only better for all of us but- remember there are principles of business and marketing behind the scenes that determine what happens.

big companies tend to go with the masses and sales. if the 450R is doing so well in all these categories they may have taken a step back and asked themselves, the same thing we are asking, "do we really NEED a big bore sport quad for US market when our sales of 450R and its results are just amazing and exceeding expectations?"

they were even amazed that the 250r became the standard until the 450s came out. 250r ruled the track for 15yrs. Honda said they were astonished and never could have dreamed it would to that, enev though they know they made the best overall 250 backthen (and today)!

and yes i do thnk honda put too much into other stuff that there sport line up; look at the robot thing they were bragging about while we are all waiting for a new sport quad!

 

Eh, I am a big 450 class fan, but come on, you even have a 700R on your future wish list(mine too, btw!) If your 450R was all that you wanted, why not just get another? All Honda has to do is look next door. Everyone making a big bore sport quad is selling what they produce. Plenty of riders out there that would rather have 450 class power+ out of a stock, reliable, comfortable, quiet, last forever big bore. Replacing titanium valves and pancake pistons just isn't for everyone, but it is a rare person that doesn't want that 450 class power [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

For the life of me, I can't figure out why people say they want a true 4x4 sport. What would this quad be capable of doing that can't already be done on a SPORT? I seriously doubt it would climb any better. Your front end is already up in the air when your climbing a really steep hill and unless your going up a hill of boulders, the sport out climbs the utilities as it is already. How about mud? How well do you think it would do in mud with just 4 inches of clearence even with 4wd? Not very IMO. I think adding a 4wd system to a good sport quad would just ruin the "sportyness" of the quad. Seriously, there is NO place I can't take any of my sport quads that I could my utility..........unless its deep mud but even then a sport 4x wouldn't do much better......................my .02

I always wanted a big bore EX too but I think Honda did a heck of a job last year on the 06 450R just by add E-start and gearing changes...........[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

A hybrid would give you the advantage of sport quad handling and light weight, but it would have selectable 4wd just in case you got into trouble out there on the trail. Maybe a little taller than a sport quad, but not tall and towering like a utility.

This is actually the quad that fits most folks actual needs! Most aren't hauling 1000 pounds around, but might get stuck now and then on a 2wd.

What I find happens, is people (like frail senior citizens) are scared that they are going to get stuck out on the trail, so they buy a huge a$$ 4X4 utility that is beyond their needs and riding skills. Then they get the 700 pound thing out in the hills and roll it and injure themselves. These folks need to buy a Rhino with a roll cage, and TWO winches.

 

Eh, I am a big 450 class fan, but come on, you even have a 700R on your future wish list(mine too, btw!) If your 450R was all that you wanted, why not just get another? All Honda has to do is look next door. Everyone making a big bore sport quad is selling what they produce. Plenty of riders out there that would rather have 450 class power+ out of a stock, reliable, comfortable, quiet, last forever big bore. Replacing titanium valves and pancake pistons just isn't for everyone, but it is a rare person that doesn't want that 450 class power
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i made that list awhile back. at the time i was making the list i was thinking of every sport bike i would like to have if unlimited resources were the case....and even contemplating getting rid of the 450R NOT b/c its a bad bike, BUT the idea i had was to have 2 bikes to do it all: my 250R and a bike e-start and reverse. now that kawasaki has a 450 coming out with these features, i may look into it and change the list! you know what the product manufacturers say : subject to change with or without notice!

if you read my first post i actually got alittle critical of some of the design flaws with the 450R. making some changes to it would help. it still doesnt handle as good as a 250R. sorry, i have both. however these flaws are not taking anything away from the 450's race and sales facts. plus i never denied wanting to see a 650ex, and actually said a few times id like to see them make one. but if the 450s are beating 660s, 700s, in honda's eyes - why make one???

the 450r has a reliable engine, - never complained about that aspect, you just have to change to oil more often than a regular sport bike. and titanium valves- it doesnt have- the 06 model may have them but the 04/05 models have steel valves and a 3 ring piston with a longer skirt that the crf450s for better reliability. i havent ran into one person that HAD to change a valve or piston yet. mine is over 2yrs old and is no where near a rebuild. a 450r is quiet as well.

i think we are more likely to see the 4x4 sport and the 450 with reverse from honda than a 650ex. yamaha has hinted on YFZ 450 with reverse, kawasaki 's is going to have it, the others will follow suit and pull the trigger on new features when they feel the time is right in the market.