Heard this rumor, but I have not seen any solid confirmation. Would like to see a service bulletin, or something like that!

HP4M is a JASO MB oil containing a moderate amount of moly. Word is, that these little pistons can't seal properly becasue of the moly. I have always been wary of highly friction modified oils! At some point, you can get so "slick" that the rings will "skate" rather than seal, causing a lot of blow-by and loss of compression.

Any info anybody????

 

I logged onto Honda and couldn't find any info there

----- Gregg -----

 

The local Honda oil distributor that is sub contracted through Honda, for our region, stopped selling it to the dealers around here this past early Spring due to lack of orders.
Dealers werent ordering it anymore and if my memory serves me correctly, the issue was addressed in an issue of The Wrench back early last fall,...if not a little bit sooner...cant remember.
I had someone who insisted on this oil a couple months ago and I ended up having to purchase 2 cases of it from another dealer in a neighboring state.
I didnt have many using that oil when it was available to us, so we havent had any major fallouts or concerns about it really.

Are you two guys still able to purchase it from your Honda oil supllier? I am just curious since we werent able to get it due to lack of sells in the regionl. Just wondered if its widespread or if its just a localized thing.

 

I have the service manual for my Foreman and it says they recommend the GN4 or HP4 Without Molly.... The manual for my Rincon says the same thing.

The dealer here generally only has a few bottles of the HP4 without molly.

In years past I've run the HP4 with Molly stuff with good results. I had a DR650 that I racked up a ton of hard miles on, and it ran strong, tight and quiet.

 

I must be dumb. I read my notebook of The Wrenches back to the spring of 2006. All I could find was a notice that all Honda units will be shipped with 10w30 oil for 2007.
Where are you guys finding this bit of info ? Guess I am lost on this one.
Any info would be welcomed on the topic.

Around here the moly was not oil of choice for our customers. Not sure if our parts personel could not convince them to run it or what.

----- Gimpster -----

 

HP4M with moly is a JASO MB friction modified oil, so its only application is on the engine side (not the transmission side) of a 450R quad or the Honda 450/250/150 dirt bikes. So, seeing it has a limited application...I can see how it also would have limited sales....in some areas.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but these Hondas are wildly popular around here (So. Calif.), and yes I can go to Chaparral or any of my other local dealers and there is a whole shelf filled with it.

What I am hearing is that being friction modified, and used in the dirt bikes with little slipper pistons with only two rings (one compression and one wiper), the rings just don't seal well and folks are getting large amounts of oil consumption....

In dirt bike forums, I have recommended that riders having this problem switch to Maxima Extra, an ester synthetic JASO MA non-friction modified oil, and they report that their oil consumption drops off to nothing!!!

 

First off Honda now has a new fully sythec motor oil, which the wrench did have a right up in, about which models they suggested that you could run this in. This new oil comes in a all red bottle

They still have the NON molly systhec in the gold bottles.

Both of the systhec's Honda says not to run in the automatic Honda ATV's.

Far as the 10w30 weight oil, that is just what Honda used when they ran there models through for emissions, they found that they were able to pass better with 10w30.

So you can still run the 10w40 in them like before.

 

The owner's manual on my new Rancher 420 lists 0W30 as an "all weather" oil...got to be kidding. Even 10W30, synthetic or not, is to light for an extremely hot So. Calif. summer!

I think Honda is messing around with us on this "thin oil" stuff....trying to meet some emissions/economy requirements (just like all the car manufacturers)! Some food for thought on that subject: http://www.machinerylubricatio...20Economy%20vs.%20Wear

 

Sorry about the novel and the spelling reconranger ! I was up all night with a bad case of phantom pain with my right leg stinging and burning to my right foot , even though i don't have any feet they till keep me up alot when the weather change's ; and i've had it bad for the past few night's ! So i did Edit it this time . I don't have a Honda now but my first quad was an 86' Honda TRX 350 Foreman with fulltime 4wd i bought it from the original owner wiith only 20 hrs on it , he told me before he took it out for his first ride he changed the oil and filter ; he used a Honda O.E.M. oil filter but he used valvoline 10w40 weight oil in it ! He told me that was the only brand and weight of oil he ever used in it ! He even gave me 2 qts of valvoline 10w40 oil and a new Honda O.E.M. oil filter when i bought it from him ! The Honda only held 2qts of oil with the filter , and i used the Honda oil filter for the first oil change i did on the quad ; but instead of the Valvoline oil i used Castrol GTX 10w40 ! This is the only oil i use in all my engine's , this quad was an air and oiled cooled engine with the electric fan to help keep the engine running cooler at low speed's and in the deep wood's and the rocky mountain trail's we ride in ! But the next oil change i used Castrol GTX 20w50 because it was summer and that's the weight oil i use in summer ; i just make sure it's rated API SH or SG i can still get it at my local Autozone parts store ! But when Castrol came out with the Castrol Synthec oil i told my Honda dealer i was going to try it in my Honda ! The dealer told me it might cause my clutch to slip because of the wet sump ( engine and tranny use the same oil ) i went ahead and changed it to the Castrol Systhec , i didn't get far enough to see if the clutch slipped or not ; as soon as i started the engine to check for leak's it started smoking bad ! White smoke and had a strange odor coming from the exhaust ! I got another filter and changed it back to the regular Castro GTXl 20w50 , By the time the engine warmed up the smoking stopped ; but it still had the strange odor untill i had changed the oil and filter 3 or 4 time's ! I don't know if anyone on the forums ever owned an 86' to 88' Honda TRX 350 Foreman , they had the big heavy straight axle front end ; but they were built like a tank and instead of power steering it took power to steer ! It scared the crap out of me the first few ride's because if one wheel drop's in a hole the other one come's off the ground just like the rear wheel does, it took me at least 6 month's to get the hang of driving it ; but i finanally got the hang off it you just had to man handle it ! I guess it was like getting use to a three wheeler , i never did take to riding one of those bugger's. I finanlly let my brother talk me into selling him the Honda , i got the same price i originally payed for it ; but i put new tire's and brake's on it before i sold it to my brother ! My second quad i bought new it was a 93' Suzuki LTF4WD 300 King Quad , i got it one week before the bizzard of 93' ; growing up in north ga. in the late 50's to early 60's i thought i had seen some bad snow and ice storm's !! But this was the worst storm to hit my area in over 100 year;s , even my mom had never seen a snow storm to top that one ; well back to the suject at hand all i ever used in the Suzuki was Castrol GTX 10w40 in winter and 20w50 in summer ! I sold the KQ to my brother's wife for $3500.00 on credit at $50.00 a week after i bought my third quad , a 2006 Arctic Cat 400 FIS Auto with the Suzuki 376cc engine/with the duramatic belt driven clutch tranny ; i thought i would never buy a belt drive ATV ! But a good friend who is also a lady i have known since she was four year's old , who won her first motocross race at 4 yrs old ; and won her first grand national championship at the Ripe old age of 8 yrs old opened up the first Arctic Cat Dealership in 2001 in my hometown Talked me into the cat ! At first i told her i wanted a manual shift model , 500 , but i didn't want the liquid cooled engine ; a lot more part's to repair, water pump radiator and all that much cost when something break's ! But she was sold out of the 400 manual shift's , and she gave me her personal garrantee that none of the 400's had been brought in with belt or clutch issue's since the 2001's came out ! And she gave me a better deal than Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha ! I got the AC 400 FIS Auto with front and rear brush guard's and a new helmet , and a promise if i had a belt or clutch problem before i get it payed off she would take care of it herself if AC didn't cover it under warrantee ; plus the deal she got me on the financing alone was better than i could get from anyother dealer ! I got it 0 downpayment and a fixed rate of 5.89 percent financing Total OTD price was $7008.00 ; it would've been $100.00 less but i bought the best cat cover they had ! And i could've gotten a wench but i chose the brush guard instaed ! And i already had a new wench still in the box if and when i deside to mount it on the front or rear , just haven't made up my mind yet ! And about the oil i think i'll stay with what has alway's worked for me , hope that everyone has a good week and a better weekend to ride ; have fun and stay safe ! ..............................

 

Willie-I'm interested in what you have to say, but that's just impossible to read!