Yes - strange. The shocks of course are adjustable, and maybe yours were equipped with a lighter spring set up than some of the others. Possibly too light for a 180lb+ rider targeted as the "average" rider weight. Maybe at some point a few set ups like yours were built in the testing stage, and found too light - causing the factory to go to the other extreme. In my manufacturing experience a lot of similar situations occurred during the first production runs of any new equipment. Most factories build what are called "pre production" runs of a limited # of units used for test purposes, and then they are sold - usually at "advantageous pricing". These units are typically made all slightly different in order to get feed back on various aspects of the market. Once the customers come back with complaints or praise, then the "final" production configuration is determined. This procedure is used to test both market acceptance of a product as well as durability and convenience. Given that Cannondale has just started marketing their new product line, it would not surprise me to see quite a few "strange" stories about problems which are found on several units - but not all. They may be testing three or four different electrical "brains" out there as well for the fuel systems to see which are the most durable over a wide variety of applications and abuses. Some of these will certainly fail, and some may last for years. This testing procedure is annoying, but if properly supported - liveable. Otherwise it takes years of testing with a couple of units and you can never duplicate what a random testing with 20 or 30 units can accomplish.

 

hckycoach,

You seem to sound a lot like Knowsalot, which is a good thing, because he usually makes sense. YOur comment on the electronics is intriging! That makes perfect sense,put out three or four different EFI systems out there and see what works best, and for the ones that have problems, replace them. Your from Pennsylvania I see, you sure you dont work for Cannondale? if you do, Great Quad!

 

Trout - lol thanks for the comments- "I dont know a lot" should more likely be my nickname. I just started in with quads about a year and a half ago so I hope my credibility doesn't fall too far off the cliff. I wouldn't mind working for Cannondale though. Seems like a company who's trying to do it right emphasizing R&D, and product support. That kind of attitude is rare and should be encouraged. They are still small enough to be dynamic, but big enough to tackle a serious project. No doubt they are or will be going through anxious moments to get this whole effort profitable. Taking on Honda, Yamaha, and Suzuki, is a little like the mouse climbing up the leg of the female elephant yelling at the other girls in the herd to wait their turn. Their biggest ally may be enough Honda and Yamaha officianados NOT taking them seriously.

My competition experience is limited to rebuilding or supervising the rebuilding of a couple of old 350X/250x conversions for my 16 year old who races MX (just starting) and flat track. Starting with pretty ancient technology helps teach one fairly quickly how easy it is to spend (or waste) money in the race business. But I love mechanical toys, and have a lot of fun avoiding doing my real job while researching quads and talking to others like here in this forum, or at tracks or at races about what works or doesn't work. If I didn't work for myself I would probably be fired by now lol. I have as I said before done a lot of mechanical design work and product development with manufacturers over the years, so I can appreciate what Cannondale is trying to do and how hard it is to succeed.

 

what are u talkin about lol honda has been around since 1945 and built the frist atc in 1971 but your right honda stands for all that and more they may not always build what we want but what they do build are the hardest most unbreakable quad's ever they think of everything in terms of craftsman ship people think im blinded by a brand name but i know fact's and iv been in the sport for almost 10 years now iv seen and read all i need to see and read

 

It's a fact Honda set the 2-stroke standard back in 1986 with the 250R. When the 400EX rolled off in 1999, it was lightyears ahead of anything available in the sport quad market at the time.

Everybody better start running and hiding when Honda brings out their next iteration... but it won't be until they stop reaping in profits with the 400EX. Beta was better than VHS... but Beta died.

I am really disappointed Yamaha doesn't sell their 426 engine in their Raptor frame. But even if they did, the Yamaha dealers in Denver always want a premium over the MSRP. When I bought my 400EX, they wanted a grand over sticker for a friggin Banshee. I'm glad Cannondale kept their engine around 450cc instead of a larger engine. I'll take handling over straight line performance anyday.

How much can you buy a Cannondale for? I've seen brand new 400EX's selling for $4700 in Denver... you guys keep acting like the Cannondale is $1000 more. Cannondales own website says their FX400 sells for $7000-$8000. Hello?? I can buy alot of kewl stuff with the difference... maybe even another whole quad!

I keep hearing bashing on the 400EX's lack of water cooling... at first I was disappointed too. But having beat the living crap out of my 400EX at the track... I could really care less. The design is solid.

I'm most impressed with Cannondales fuel injection. Living in Colorado the tracks are at 5,000 feet... and trails can go as high as 13,000 feet. Re-jetting is a constant pain. As for aluminum frame and oil in the frame... this is nothing new in the cycle world. My gawd... my DR-350 has a dry sump system with oil in the frame. Can Cannondales change out their tranny gear ratios? I thought this was an awesome idea... but nobody talks about it much.

One thing I cannot believe is most sport ATV's lack an auxilary start. I have no clue what I'm going to do if my starter fails in the dunes. If they added an extra kick-start, the true racers could remove the electric starting system and save some extra pounds.

And by the way, Honda is going back to F1 within a year or two. You guys are crazy if think they won't eventually be top dawgs again! They left F1 for lack of competition... same reason they plan to leave CART after this year.

And finally (yes I've been rambling). It always come down to rider ability winning at the track. I'm convinced Ricky Carmichael would be winning regardless if he was riding a Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, KTM, Cannondale, 2-stroke, or 4-stroke. Oh by the way... he switched from Kawasaki and currently rides a Honda!

 

You all keep talking about the great Cannondale customer service. Let's put it into perspective:

I just came out with a NEW product, for which there's heavy competition from several well established factories. I have two things to sell: innovative tech, and SERVICE. Without the perception that I CARE A LOT and am willing to RIGHT ALL WRONGS, I'm dead before the first selling year is over.

The buyer is also part of the R&D: you PAY Cannondale for the "privilege" of testing their new product for them. They'll learn from all the buyers out there what they like, what they don't, what breaks, what doesn't. Each year there's tons of changes or improvements, all good for the new buyers and those old buyers that they upgrade, bad because not all the parts may be interchangeable from one year to the next, bad for the second or third owner that isn't eligible for the upgrades.

How long will they do all this? when the quads are finally selling well and established as viable competition for the Big Four, will they still have "Great" customer service, or sit back like the Big Four? That's what you'll get to find out the hard way. History of other companies says that they'll cut back to what the other companies do.

I'm glad they made the quad, I'm glad it's innovative, I'm glad to have a choice, just don't be taken in by the "Great Service" thing, because all companies have done it at one time or another. It's a MUST to break into a new market.

I even kinda like it's "Lovesick Bullfrog" look [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

lol, ofcourse honda dropped out F1 for a lack of competition, i mean afterall isn't declaring your the best and dropping out the best way to promote your company? i guess we should look for carmichel to drop out of racing after this year if we wins again since he will be the "best"? Oh by the way, just becuase carmichel won last season doesn't mean that he is the best racer ever as so many look at him as. How many times has mcgrath won? how many has carmichel won? Also i wouldn't look for carmichel to win this year if pastrana can stop trying to get huge air during his practice laps.(if i was suzuki i wouldn't let the kid ride practice laps, lol) hmmmm the 400ex was way ahead of everything else on the sport market at the time? it handeled better, but the banshee was faster and there have been aircooled 4 stroke sport quads for years. the 400ex is a great quad, but it is def not revolutionary.

 

Pappy - you make a very valid point. Without the intense customer service level this Cannondale venture would be doomed to a predictable failure. However there is one thing working to Cannondales advantage in all this. The fact that they are dependant on their survival based on the continuing success of each of three fairly small but specialized product lines. Remember C'dale started with competition style racing (pedal) bikes and carved a niche in a market by building specialty performance equipment - not really a mass market approach. They cannot just throw some "neat" stuff out there to see how the water is, like some of the larger companies, or write their losses off against large profits from another successfull division if the venture sinks. I cant imagine that Cannondales aspirations are to displace Honda Suzuki or Yamaha in the recreation market. I believe they are taking aim at the performance market only with a little spin off to "status" riders who dont actually compete. I would believe that more money is spent on aftermarket replacement parts or additions to the traditional race quads than was spent to purchase the original quad. Most of that money is being spent outside the coffers of the big three. Following this argument, it would make sense that Cannondale will have to stay in direct touch with its competition based market because that is the only way to ensure success - to know week by week whether you are winning or losing and to make sure that your audience knows it too. Here is where the argument in favor of this approach gets a little dicey.
You have this large pool of aftermarket $ being spent and you (Cannondale) wants a big slice of the pie. You build a pure sport quad to be a performance leader in the three major competitive race divisions. You offer an "entry quad" at the bottom of the performance budget scale - the Cannibal and let those who want to spend the extra performance dollars outside C'dales pocket do so. But you have already given them an engine and frame design which can compete right up through the expert class without having to spend the extra $4000 to get equivalent performance(engine and frame) from the after market. Now for the Cannibal buyers the additional money is being spent on front and rear suspension, a pipe,nerfs, and "peripherals" - appearance and minor accessories. Cannondale counters this by offering the Moto - essentially a race ready mx bike even at expert levels. At $12,000 this bike should be a bargain comparing what is included versus what you would spend to piecemeal the equivalent together. All the major goodies are included. What these Motos lack and what may be Cannodales error in judgement is personal identity. Almost every racer wants to know two things a his equipment: That it makes a statement about himself/and/or/team in it's appearance, and that he has made some "little" changes that should give him an edge maybe even a big edge. Even though at this level of racing it should be "95% rider and 5% equipment - human nature dictates that only the winners look at it this way. Buying a "stock" high performance racing quad(ie the Moto) - even a very good one - may not be too appealing except to those making their decisions based on budget alone. Maybe Cannondale should switch their approach to only offering the Cannibal as it's basic product and then branching out into it's own brand of high quality aftermarket performace products. Then let the customer choose his style and color of plastics and levels of suspension upgrade, style of nerfs bumpers etc. A sort of "one stop shopping" deal that let's the customer customize his own ride to his own taste, budget and performance level. This would also ensure Cannondales participation in the marketplace for a very long time.
Sorry about the length folks - and my appologies for the continued diversion - this is supposed to be a Honda forum

 

pappy wrote:
"The buyer is also part of the R&D: you PAY Cannondale for the "privilege" of testing their new product for them. They'll learn from all the buyers out there what they like, what they don't, what breaks, what doesn't. Each year there's tons of changes or improvements, all good for the new buyers and those old buyers that they upgrade, bad because not all the parts may be interchangeable from one year to the next, bad for the second or third owner that isn't eligible for the upgrades."

The motocross dirtbike market has operated in this mode for years and continues to thrive.

In fact, because of this, you can now go out and buy the dirtbike of your choice for approx $5000-$6000 and race it successfully the same afternoon.

The quad market started this way, until the govt stepped in.

I can't see any way that this could be a "bad" thing.

Hckycoach - excellent posts...

Honda blinded folks -
Being a Honda fan from way back, I can certainly identify.... However, many of you need to wake up and realize that the 450EX is Vaporware. You also need to realize that *if* Honda ever does build one, it will be substantially detuned from the dirtbike version.

The big thing is you *can* go out and buy a new C-Dale today, you get a good handling machine with lots of cool stuff and very good power. You can't even look at a *Honda* TRX450EX - because one doesn't exist.

As far as the reliability of Honda's, sure, they're typically great machines. I've been doing well racing my 400EX for almost two seasons now. But that's not a good reason to completely count out the C-Dale. Thousands of poor souls have purchased Raptors since their introduction. The Raptor (or any Yamaha Sport quad) doesn't have a very good track record, in fact, they're much worse than anything I've heard about any Cannondale, and the worst part is Yamaha has a long track record of not helping customers even with valid warranty claims - yet people still go in droves to buy them.

Fourlix
I'm very surprised to hear that coming from you... Even more surprised to hear that from someone with a Polaris Background [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I think I've substantially offended everyone now -

Oh yeah - I guess, count me in with the "guys that have ridden one" crowd.

 

Waiting sucks![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]