In the December 99 issue, Dirt Wheels published my letter begging Honda to "R"eserect the "R". In the Jan 00 issue, on page 12 there is a hint that Honda is working on a TRUE replacement for the 250R. Does anyone out there know if there is any TRUTH to this, or HOW LONG WILL WE HAVE TO WAIT until this dream becomes a reality? I am PRAYING that it may be a mid-2000 model!!

 

Read it again. It's just like any other "rumor" they have published. It's mostly for attention like this.

 

I'll agree with Adam on this one. It would be nice if Honda introduced a two-stroke with direct-injection and their A.R.C. system (Active Radical Combustion, as is found on the CRM250 in Japan) with even, gag, a catylitic converter, to pass emissions. I would buy it. But I seriously doubt Honda will go the way of the two-stroke.

If they make anymore sport/high-performance quads, I expect it to either go in the way of a re-engined 400EX (600 or 650EX), an updated 300EX, or the introduction of a TRX200X.

Tom Rawlins

 

Actually if no one bought the 400EX I don't believe that Honda would have ever built a Hi-performance quad again (you can bet the other manu's were and still are watching as well). One of the reasons Honda didn't fight tooth & nail to keep the CPSC at bay in '89 is because the market for high performance machines was quickly going away. Our wonderful media scared everyone away from 3 and 4 wheelers.

I believe the 400 was an experiment, luckily it went well, the high-performance market is coming back up and hopefully we will be rewarded with more and better machines in the future.

Gabe
'86ATC250R
'86ATC350X
'00TRX400EX

[This message has been edited by 86atc250r (edited 11-19-1999).]

 

What pisses me off about the whole 2 stroke debate is that the japs will still put the 2 stroke engines in the dirt bikes and not quads. If we are buying 4 quads for every motorcycle built, why aren't they paying attention to our pleas. The quad market is so hot that we'll buy about anything they will let us have.There is a company that knows what we want and is going to give it to us. Come on Gas Gas, as soon as you bring your new 2 stroke quad to the U. S. I know I'm putting one in my garage.

Bruce
99' 400EX
99' Wolverine

 

As an employee of a Toyota dealership, I get all kinds of propaganda, and literature across my desk. It seems that the EPA pretty much dictates that 2-strokes will not be produced much longer, even at all in the near future. Suzuki has a very clean burning 3 cylinder car, that is a two stroke, and it still can't be certified for the U.S. As far as a another hi-performance quad goes, I wouldn't hold your breath. If industrial giants like, Suzuki, Toyota, and even the mega-giant Honda can't produce 2-strokes that will meet stringent U.S. standards, I'd say the 2-stroke is slowly,and sadly going the way of the dinosaur. And to make matters worse, Honda sells every 400ex they make, and Yamaha has a waiting list for every YZ400 & YZ426 they make. If nobody would of bought these bikes, we might of had a chance, but unfortunately, this is not the case.

 

As far as GasGas goes, it's good that they are building a bike that will compete in the hi-perf market, but keep in mind that you will someday need parts, and want hop-up's and will have to pay dearly for them.

As for the 2-stroke dirtbikes, they get by with this because of their extensive involvement in racing. They are considered "Closed Course Racing Only" bikes by the Govt., even though we all know that's not the only thing they are used for. The are also able to get by the EPA Federal noise emmissions standards this way, so until you see the quad racing market approach the level that dirtbikes have attained, we don't stand a chance.

I guess the "dark years" are still all to clear in my memory, I am thankful for what we have gotten so far and am not going to complain......

Gabe
'86ATC250R
'86ATC350X
'00TRX400EX

[This message has been edited by 86atc250r (edited 11-19-1999).]

 

How about snowmobiles? Every single snowmobile has a two stroke engine. I'm surprised we didn't see an alternative to some two strokes in snowmobiles already. I suppose they don't care as much about them because they don't sell nearly as much as ATV's and they are mostly limited to the northern states and Canada. How about weed eaters, some lawn mowers, mopeds, etc. It seems like they have nothing to worry about, only the ATV's do.

 

You forgot the biggest user of 2-strokes there is, PWC's.

Where have you been??? You must realize the environazi's are heavily after all 2-stroke's and alternatives are being looked at quite seriously by all manufacturers. Oh yeah, California is leading this "ban the 2-stroke" thing and last time I checked not many sleds were in use there.

Think about it.... The Hi-perf ATV market is just now coming back to life, for the last 10 years there have been no bikes avail (except the Banshee who's design and tooling was paid for a very long time ago) if you were a manufacturer and were about to start production on a brand new platform and had the chioce would you set up shop, tooling, and the rest of the manu process and start production on a design that would have to be changed quite soon?

The other industries you sited have been in place for many years producing 2-strokes, and will only change when they are forced to.

I know, Honda and others already have 2-strokes available so why not just slap that old CR250 engine in a quad.... Well, we all know that none of the manufacturers do that, they always de-tune these engines for ATV's (liability reasons and the CPSC) and to do this they usually remove power valves, change porting, etc... which all requires very expensive tooling changes. SO, we get 4-strokes, not such a bad thing, each has their good and bad points, usually a 2-stroke will feel faster even though it may not be, this is due to the power delivery, a 4 stroke can be deceptively fast.

Everyone still talks like the 400 can't touch the 250R on the track, but if you go to the local tracks, where the bikes are still mostly Honda (not aftermarket units like what are found on the big racing circuits), the 400EX's have been kicking some butt. Granted the rider is all the difference, but he still has to have his tool, and from what I have seen the 250R riders that have switched have been winning lots of races on their 400's. In fact about all of them around here. Typical day at the track: 400's in front, followed by 250R's then by the Banshee's and other bikes.

The above was in no way intended to talk down the 250R (I still love mine) it was just to illustrate a point that even though we are only going to have 4-strokes in our future, it is not such a bad thing.

The people I truely feel sorry for in the loss of the 2-strokes are the PWC people where the weight of a 4 stroke required to produce 100+ hp, will definately hamper the quick handling of the watercraft.

California starts the trends, and from the way it looks 4-strokes are the way of the future. Unless Honda can work some of their emmissions magic for us.

Gabe
'86ATC250R
'86ATC350X
'00TRX400EX


[This message has been edited by 86atc250r (edited 11-20-1999).]

 

Hello again friends. I've been doing some online research on this new possible two stroke quad engine and found something that you ALL will find interesting. Get a pen and paper and go to: http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mchonda/exp2_tech.html This may help all you skeptics and excite others that would otherwise loose faith in ever buying a NEW two stroke quad from HONDA. I won't comment on the article until some of you get a chance to read it.