what mods for 250r to beat banchi in sand
#2
12-01-1999, 11:38 PM
#3
12-03-1999, 03:19 AM
#4
12-03-1999, 10:49 AM
Go to <a href="http://www.geocities.com/~gtthunder">GTThunder</a> and talk to Lasarus Sommers, he has many Dyno runs on his site for 250R's that well exceed the 35hp level required to smoke a stock banshee. If you don't see the parts combinations on the Dyno run that were used, just e-mail him and he will explain.
That kind of power shouldn't be hard at all to extract from a 250R motor.
Gabe
'86ATC250R
'86ATC350X
'00TRX400EX
That kind of power shouldn't be hard at all to extract from a 250R motor.
Gabe
'86ATC250R
'86ATC350X
'00TRX400EX
#5
12-03-1999, 12:00 PM
35 hp??? Smoke a Banshee??? What planet are YOU on?
I just spent two weekends at Glamis and found only a couple of 250R quads that could run with my fairly mild Banshee. Other than the pure hill shooters that have the Pilot 400 head or the 350cc stroker motors, there's nothing that will "smoke" a Banshee. The 310 or 330 kits will make the Honda competitive for hill racing, but they won't "smoke" anything other than a bone stock Banshee. The same 300 kit on a three wheeler runs much better, but an extended swingarm is MANDATORY.
Since I've owned both a 250R and a Banshee, my opinion is that in order to consistently run with a typical Banshee with pipes only (in the sand), the 250R will need better than 45 hp. It's not hard to do, but it's going to require the 310 or 330 kit, pipe and carb. All together that ends up costing about $1500.
Since finding a piped only Banshee is getting less and less common in the dunes, there will always be someone with a basic 370 kit (or more) on their Banshee that will make better than 60 hp and those guys won't be beat by anything short of a 330R on alcohol. Heck, I ran into a web site a few months ago that had a ported 350cc Banshee with pipes and carbs that had dyno runs at over 70 hp. THAT'S going to be mighty expensive to achieve with a 250R based motor.
No matter how you look at it, the Banshee has an extra cylinder, and that means more potential for hp than the 250R.
I just spent two weekends at Glamis and found only a couple of 250R quads that could run with my fairly mild Banshee. Other than the pure hill shooters that have the Pilot 400 head or the 350cc stroker motors, there's nothing that will "smoke" a Banshee. The 310 or 330 kits will make the Honda competitive for hill racing, but they won't "smoke" anything other than a bone stock Banshee. The same 300 kit on a three wheeler runs much better, but an extended swingarm is MANDATORY.
Since I've owned both a 250R and a Banshee, my opinion is that in order to consistently run with a typical Banshee with pipes only (in the sand), the 250R will need better than 45 hp. It's not hard to do, but it's going to require the 310 or 330 kit, pipe and carb. All together that ends up costing about $1500.
Since finding a piped only Banshee is getting less and less common in the dunes, there will always be someone with a basic 370 kit (or more) on their Banshee that will make better than 60 hp and those guys won't be beat by anything short of a 330R on alcohol. Heck, I ran into a web site a few months ago that had a ported 350cc Banshee with pipes and carbs that had dyno runs at over 70 hp. THAT'S going to be mighty expensive to achieve with a 250R based motor.
No matter how you look at it, the Banshee has an extra cylinder, and that means more potential for hp than the 250R.
#6
12-03-1999, 02:14 PM
#7
12-03-1999, 07:02 PM
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#8
12-04-1999, 04:11 AM
Sandmandblue, your math does not work.
First of all, the question was: what would it take for a 250R to beat a Banshee, I stated the power level required to exceed that of a STOCK Banshee since the question asker did not specify. I did not say you could beat every Banshee with mild mods. No matter what you have, there will always be someone faster (even if you ride a Banshee)
400EX = about 28 hp
350Banshee = about 35 hp
250r = don't know stock hp, but a little more than a 400EX
250R is lighter in weight, please explain how it will take 45 hp in a 250R to compete with a stock 35hp Banshee??? Yes, there may be more potential there, heck it is 100CC larger, but again I was talking stock, not potential.
My ATC250R only has a few hundred dollars in mods and I can outrun stock Banshees in a drag race fairly easily (as long as I can keep the front down
) and the later model 4trx250's had a little better porting for a few more hp.
When the bikes are as close as a slightly modified 250R and stock Banshee are, it's all rider.
With your logic, my 400EX should barely be able to keep up with a 17HP Warrior (since, of course, yamaha's HP is better than Honda's). I can assure you that, that is not the case.
From your previous posts, you don't care for Honda's much and are pretty stuck on your Banshee, so the question remains:
What are you doing in the Honda forum anyway? Trolling?
Gabe
'86ATC250R
'86ATC350X
'00TRX400EX
[This message has been edited by 86atc250r (edited 12-04-1999).]
First of all, the question was: what would it take for a 250R to beat a Banshee, I stated the power level required to exceed that of a STOCK Banshee since the question asker did not specify. I did not say you could beat every Banshee with mild mods. No matter what you have, there will always be someone faster (even if you ride a Banshee)
400EX = about 28 hp
350Banshee = about 35 hp
250r = don't know stock hp, but a little more than a 400EX
250R is lighter in weight, please explain how it will take 45 hp in a 250R to compete with a stock 35hp Banshee??? Yes, there may be more potential there, heck it is 100CC larger, but again I was talking stock, not potential.
My ATC250R only has a few hundred dollars in mods and I can outrun stock Banshees in a drag race fairly easily (as long as I can keep the front down
) and the later model 4trx250's had a little better porting for a few more hp.When the bikes are as close as a slightly modified 250R and stock Banshee are, it's all rider.
With your logic, my 400EX should barely be able to keep up with a 17HP Warrior (since, of course, yamaha's HP is better than Honda's). I can assure you that, that is not the case.
From your previous posts, you don't care for Honda's much and are pretty stuck on your Banshee, so the question remains:
What are you doing in the Honda forum anyway? Trolling?
Gabe
'86ATC250R
'86ATC350X
'00TRX400EX
[This message has been edited by 86atc250r (edited 12-04-1999).]
#9
12-06-1999, 04:52 PM
ALL that i have to say is banshee's suck *** (really they do) considering ther are a twin cylinder 350cc motor they are ****ty stock but i do admit with a few mods they fly i used to have one but i got sick of fixing it so in 98 i bought a 300ex (HONDA QUALITY) and waiting for a DS650 to come to my local bombardiar dealer so i can kill all u ****ty banshee lover hehehehehhe!!!
DG_300EX
DG_300EX
#10
12-06-1999, 06:46 PM
Stock? Who the heck has a "stock" quad anyway???
250R lighter than the Banshee? Yeah, by about 25 lbs. WOW, big deal!!!
Don't like my math??? I didn't post any (neither did you 86atc250r). You want math? OK, here it is -
Stock - ATC 250R - 32 hp and roughly 290 lbs dry = 9.063 lbs/hp
Stock - TRX 250R - 32 hp and roughly 365 lbs dry = 11.406 lbs/hp
Stock - Banshee ( I have several dyno sheets measuring 39 hp, but I'll use your 35 hp for fun) - 35 hp and roughly 390 lbs = 11.143 lbs/hp, but wait, why does a "stock" Banshee SMOKE a stock TRX, and run neck and neck with a "stock" ATC???? Hmmm, maybe that 32 hp was at the crankshaft and not at the rear wheels??? Maybe there is more to having two cylinders and a LOT more torque than the 250 does??? Maybe in the real world, math only gets you close.
Now, real world - Banshee w/pipes (very, very common and I have Toomey and FMF dyno runs to prove it) 46 hp and 390 lbs = 8.478 lb/hp
250R w/pipe - 38 hp and 365 lbs = 9.474 lbs/hp
WOW - looks like it would take about 43 hp to MATCH the power to weight ratio the Banshee has. I guessed at the 45 hp, so give me a break! That's what it would take to BEAT the Banshee.
What about the 400EX???
365 lbs and 28 hp = 13.036 lbs/hp - looks like THAT is going to be expensive to get to at least 43 hp. Where the heck did the Warrior comment come from? Did you drink a beer???
And, your beloved three wheeler (I owned one BTW) - add a pipe and it runs with a stock Banshee, do some more mods and it keeps up with a piped Banshee (at least in a straight line). Also, "later model TRX" motors didn't make any more hp than the earlier ones, show me some dyno runs if you disagree.
I stand by what I said. It will be expensive for a 250R to run with the Banshee in the sand. Not to mention "smoke" one. The original question was about running in the sand and that is what I am addressing.
Oh, and what am I doing in the Honda forums? Going straight to the daily topics, wherever they are, that's what. Or do you want to only have a one sided conversation with people that agree with you?
Take a chill pill 86atc250r. I don't hate Hondas. It's just the opposite. I've just been around enough of them to know what I am talking about (questioning YOUR experience). Do I think Yamahas are great? No. Are they the "be-all-end-all" of quads? No. The Banshee is just fast, and potential DOES mean something. This whole thread was about the potential of the 250R.
Oh, DG_300EX, man, you really took a step up going to that 300ex. Did you get the optional plow attachment??? Hehehehehe yourself.
250R lighter than the Banshee? Yeah, by about 25 lbs. WOW, big deal!!!
Don't like my math??? I didn't post any (neither did you 86atc250r). You want math? OK, here it is -
Stock - ATC 250R - 32 hp and roughly 290 lbs dry = 9.063 lbs/hp
Stock - TRX 250R - 32 hp and roughly 365 lbs dry = 11.406 lbs/hp
Stock - Banshee ( I have several dyno sheets measuring 39 hp, but I'll use your 35 hp for fun) - 35 hp and roughly 390 lbs = 11.143 lbs/hp, but wait, why does a "stock" Banshee SMOKE a stock TRX, and run neck and neck with a "stock" ATC???? Hmmm, maybe that 32 hp was at the crankshaft and not at the rear wheels??? Maybe there is more to having two cylinders and a LOT more torque than the 250 does??? Maybe in the real world, math only gets you close.
Now, real world - Banshee w/pipes (very, very common and I have Toomey and FMF dyno runs to prove it) 46 hp and 390 lbs = 8.478 lb/hp
250R w/pipe - 38 hp and 365 lbs = 9.474 lbs/hp
WOW - looks like it would take about 43 hp to MATCH the power to weight ratio the Banshee has. I guessed at the 45 hp, so give me a break! That's what it would take to BEAT the Banshee.
What about the 400EX???
365 lbs and 28 hp = 13.036 lbs/hp - looks like THAT is going to be expensive to get to at least 43 hp. Where the heck did the Warrior comment come from? Did you drink a beer???
And, your beloved three wheeler (I owned one BTW) - add a pipe and it runs with a stock Banshee, do some more mods and it keeps up with a piped Banshee (at least in a straight line). Also, "later model TRX" motors didn't make any more hp than the earlier ones, show me some dyno runs if you disagree.
I stand by what I said. It will be expensive for a 250R to run with the Banshee in the sand. Not to mention "smoke" one. The original question was about running in the sand and that is what I am addressing.
Oh, and what am I doing in the Honda forums? Going straight to the daily topics, wherever they are, that's what. Or do you want to only have a one sided conversation with people that agree with you?
Take a chill pill 86atc250r. I don't hate Hondas. It's just the opposite. I've just been around enough of them to know what I am talking about (questioning YOUR experience). Do I think Yamahas are great? No. Are they the "be-all-end-all" of quads? No. The Banshee is just fast, and potential DOES mean something. This whole thread was about the potential of the 250R.
Oh, DG_300EX, man, you really took a step up going to that 300ex. Did you get the optional plow attachment??? Hehehehehe yourself.