Synthetic Oil
#11
04-14-2000, 02:43 PM
Myths....
There's always somebody somewhere that brings up the wet clutch thing. The fact is that no one has ever had a problem with it, it's always just speculation, someone says "I heard it will cause the wet clutch to slip", folks believe it and perpetuate the rumor.
For some reason people think synthetic oil is "more slippery" and that's why it works better (probably the train of though generated by the Slick50's, Prolong's, and other snake oils), this is not the case, it has other properties that are the true reason it works better: better cold pumpability, greater film strength, resistance to higher temperatures, viscosity is not as easily broken down, etc... I believe a synthetic oil is especially important to the life of a hot running, high RPM turning, air-cooled engine.
Personally I would not run a 0w40 weight oil in my engine unless the temps in my area were extremely cold. To get a 0w40 weight oil, they have to use a lot of viscosity index improver which makes the oil more prone to breaking down, which leaves you with a very thin 0w base stock oil, not desirable at all... I use Mobil 1 15w50, it uses no viscosity index improver, if I do any extremely cold weather riding I will use 5w30 for the same reason.
Another myth that seems to be circulating around is that it will cause camshaft and rocker wear. I really don't know where this comes from, but I have recently torn down a 14 year old ATC350X (Mine) engine that was run for years on synthetic oil. It showed a lack of camshaft, rocker, valveguide, valvestem, and cylinder wall wear. This machine was ridden very hard, and the only reason it was torn down, is that it began to smoke some after an aircleaner incident that let unfiltered air enter the engine in a very dusty environment for an undetermined amount of time. The fact is, from a quick inspection it looks like this engine is only going to require a hone, new set of rings, valves lapped, and reassembled... Also if it made cams go flat, wouldn't there be a lot of lawsuits out there, synthetic is pretty widely used stuff....
Synthetic oil has been shown to work just fine by myself and others here that are currently using it......
There's always somebody somewhere that brings up the wet clutch thing. The fact is that no one has ever had a problem with it, it's always just speculation, someone says "I heard it will cause the wet clutch to slip", folks believe it and perpetuate the rumor.
For some reason people think synthetic oil is "more slippery" and that's why it works better (probably the train of though generated by the Slick50's, Prolong's, and other snake oils), this is not the case, it has other properties that are the true reason it works better: better cold pumpability, greater film strength, resistance to higher temperatures, viscosity is not as easily broken down, etc... I believe a synthetic oil is especially important to the life of a hot running, high RPM turning, air-cooled engine.
Personally I would not run a 0w40 weight oil in my engine unless the temps in my area were extremely cold. To get a 0w40 weight oil, they have to use a lot of viscosity index improver which makes the oil more prone to breaking down, which leaves you with a very thin 0w base stock oil, not desirable at all... I use Mobil 1 15w50, it uses no viscosity index improver, if I do any extremely cold weather riding I will use 5w30 for the same reason.
Another myth that seems to be circulating around is that it will cause camshaft and rocker wear. I really don't know where this comes from, but I have recently torn down a 14 year old ATC350X (Mine) engine that was run for years on synthetic oil. It showed a lack of camshaft, rocker, valveguide, valvestem, and cylinder wall wear. This machine was ridden very hard, and the only reason it was torn down, is that it began to smoke some after an aircleaner incident that let unfiltered air enter the engine in a very dusty environment for an undetermined amount of time. The fact is, from a quick inspection it looks like this engine is only going to require a hone, new set of rings, valves lapped, and reassembled... Also if it made cams go flat, wouldn't there be a lot of lawsuits out there, synthetic is pretty widely used stuff....
Synthetic oil has been shown to work just fine by myself and others here that are currently using it......
#12
04-15-2000, 12:17 PM
For all of us changin" oil..go back to our start up page,scroll down left collumn to "tech tips"
Go to "all you need to know about oil"!!
Good information..Mobil 1 finished lower than expected. I was still concerned about using synthetic oil ,except when I whent to Honda shop for filter there it was ,Honda synthetic oil,..cost...$4.85 a quart... Valvoline synthetic blend was $2.10 at wallmart...No problems with Valvoline 10-40 after only 50 miles.
Also amsoil web site has good article debating synthetic oil usage in air cooled bikes n quads.. good reading on cool,wet day!
Go to "all you need to know about oil"!!
Good information..Mobil 1 finished lower than expected. I was still concerned about using synthetic oil ,except when I whent to Honda shop for filter there it was ,Honda synthetic oil,..cost...$4.85 a quart... Valvoline synthetic blend was $2.10 at wallmart...No problems with Valvoline 10-40 after only 50 miles.
Also amsoil web site has good article debating synthetic oil usage in air cooled bikes n quads.. good reading on cool,wet day!
#13
04-15-2000, 03:33 PM
Gabe, do you use regular Mobil 1 15W-50 Tri-Sythetic motor oil? I'm on Mobil's web site right now, looking at their oils. I'm trying to decide what kind of oil I'm going to get for my next change. I am currently using Honda GN4 10W-40 and I think I'm going to try synthetic oil, but I can decide on Honda HP4 20W50 or Mobil. Honda oil is kind of expensive.
#15
04-15-2000, 11:01 PM
Yep, I use the regular stuff. I tend to believe that all the motorcycle specific stuff is marketing. People love to gouge us M/C / ATV riders (I guess they figure we have more money than sense)..... Never had any trouble with automotive synthetic...
Also, watch out for the Castrol Syntec. Even the stuff marketed as "Full Synthetic" is only a level 3 highly refined mineral oil, not truely a synthetic, although better than standard oil.
Redline is a pure level 5 Ester base stock. Motul's good stuff is also a level 5 Ester base. Mobil 1 is a blend of level 5 Ester and level 4 Polyaromatic Olefin (good stuff too). Amsoil is also a level 4 synthetic.
Also, watch out for the Castrol Syntec. Even the stuff marketed as "Full Synthetic" is only a level 3 highly refined mineral oil, not truely a synthetic, although better than standard oil.
Redline is a pure level 5 Ester base stock. Motul's good stuff is also a level 5 Ester base. Mobil 1 is a blend of level 5 Ester and level 4 Polyaromatic Olefin (good stuff too). Amsoil is also a level 4 synthetic.
#16
04-16-2000, 10:13 AM
Bill450es,
On the back of the Honda HP-4 synthetic blend bottle is a caution statement saying not to be used in vehicles with centrifugal (automatic) clutches. The parts men at the dealer didn't even know this, but it's printed on the bottle. Honda has no literature stating not to use synthetics, just don't use their own. Weird.
Dale
On the back of the Honda HP-4 synthetic blend bottle is a caution statement saying not to be used in vehicles with centrifugal (automatic) clutches. The parts men at the dealer didn't even know this, but it's printed on the bottle. Honda has no literature stating not to use synthetics, just don't use their own. Weird.
Dale
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