Umm, no it doesn't. The 270 is a powerful caliber, super fast too. YOu will have to show me your balistic chart that has the 7mm that much ahead of the 270 at only 200 yards.

By the way, I use a 270 WSM for deer, and a .300 Win mag for caribou and moose. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

All of the cartriges I mention used a 24" barrel. The .270 Win can fire a 140 gr. bullet at up to 3000 fps. This equals between 1885- 2129 fp of energy @ 200 yds. depending on bullet brand & design.

The 7 mag can fire a 140 grain bullet at up to 3100 fps. This equals between 2020 - 2270 fp of energy @ 200 yds. depending on bullet brand & design.

The .338 Win. mag can fire a 225 grain bullet at up to 2850 fps. This equals between 2700 - 2800 fp of energy @ 200 yds. depending on bullet brand & design.

An experienced handloader can tweak all these to safetly shoot faster but not by much. These velocoties would better represent premium store bought ammo. such as Hornady light magnum & Federal premium. The biggest advantage that I see is the larger hole that the .338 will make.

Any of these rounds will do the trick on elk & do it well. The Win. 30/30 was used with confidence in taking deer & elk when it was factory loaded with black powder way back when. IMO, a responsible shooter/hunter can down elk size game humanely with as small a round as .243 & up.

 

Some numbers for grins and giggles.

The 338 with 230 grain bullet shows in my Speer reload manual the hottest load at 2980 fps. That computes to 4534 ft lbs muzzle energy, and with BC .484 at 300 yards still packing 2941 ft lbs. Big time power there.

The 7 mag shooting a 160 grain at 2970 has 3133 ft lbs muzzle energy, and 2220 at 300 yards.

My 270 peashooter [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] with 130 grain at 3050 has 2685 ft lbs muzzle energy and 1732 at 300 yards.

My partner knocked his bull down last year with his 7 mag right at (rangefinder) 500 yards. It took a couple hits in the lungs and wandered around a bit then dropped within about 50 yards. I don't know if I'd take that shot with the 270 just on diminished energy, although I know elk have been taken at that range with that caliber. I shot a bull at about 100 yards with said 270, broke through front shoulder blade (oops shot a bit forward he was moving) took out lungs and the bull ran a short ways and piled up.

I know guys who've dropped them with 257 Roberts and 243. I would only take perfect shots with those calibers, broadside standing close etc. But my original comment on putting one in the engine room still stands: If you hit the lungs that elk is going down whether you have a .338 sized hole or .277, he don't know the difference, when blood oxygen drops he's hitting the dirt.

I see in Guns & Ammo mag the gun writer Craig Boddington comments the longest elk shot he ever made successfully was at 400 & some odd yards,,,,, his caliber? 270 Winchester.

 

On another note, this is the 100 year anniversary of the 30-06! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

I was getting my numbers from Chuck Hawks' website. I compared the following:

.270 Win (150 gr. Sp) MV=2850, V@200 yds=2183, ME (ft lb)=2705, E@200 yds=1587
7mm Mag (150 gr. SpBT) MV=3110, V@200 yds=2751, ME (ft lb)=3221, E@200 yds=2520

Seemed only fair to compare apples to apples (150 gr vs. 150 gr).

For sake of the discussion, it is admittedly misleading to just compare "Energy" when determining the "Killing Power" of a cartridge. As agreed by all, the number one factor in killing power is bullet placement. Second most is bullet terminal performance. Let's look at Chuck's Optimum Game Weight (OGW) table which attempts to balance a bullet's weight, kinetic energy, momentum, sectional density, diameter, nose configuration and impact velocity in an attempt to fully quantify "Killing Power" in terms of animal weight. This optimal weight goes down as the range increases and energy and momentum decrease.

The (difficult to read) table that follows shows the cartridge followed by the bullet weight and muzzle velocity of the specific load (Wb@MV). The next five columns show the maximum optimal range for the five selected weight classes of game. The effective range has been calculated in yards and, in most instances, rounded off to the nearest 5 yards. The maximum range listed for any cartridge is 400 yards, since 400 yards is beyond the point blank range of every cartridge shown. Adequate killing power at longer distances is indicated by the notation "400+." The notation "n/a" means that the cartridge is not applicable (lacks adequate killing power at any range) for hunting animals of that size.

Cartridge (Wb@MV) 100 lb game - 200 lb - 400 lb - 600 lb - 1000 lb

270 Win. (130 at 3140) 400+ 400+ 290 120 n/a

270 Win. (150 at 2900) 400+ 400+ 350 160 n/a

7mm Mag. (150 at 3110) 400+ 400+ 400+ 250 10

30-06 (165 at 2800) 400+ 400+ 380 190 n/a

30-06 (180 at 2700) 400+ 400+ 400+ 225 n/a

300 Win. (180 at 3070) 400+ 400+ 400+ 400+ 170

338 Win. (250 at 2700) 400+ 400+ 400+ 400+ 290

The inclusion of the size of the animal and the range to bullet impact is crucial to a meaningful comparision of hunting rifle killing power. The thing I always find interesting about that table is how potent the .30-06 (particularly with 180 gr loads) really is on elk. A .30-06 in the hands of a proficient shooter is deadly on elk.

A more inclusive table can be accessed here:

Chuck Hawks - Optimum Game Weight Table

 

Been watching this thread here and reading the same thing in gun magazines and hearing it in barber shops and coffee counters for well over the a half century. Been on my share of hunts and have a good selection of rifles in calibers ranging from pre civil war to very modern. I have probably sent as much lead downrange over the years as the majority here. The arguments and opinions never change and never will. Lots of the new calibers with WWS or other designations behind or ahead of the numbers have been done by wildcatters several times in years past but were not picked up by the factories. Big bore, small bore or something in between. What it really comes down to is the ability to shoot and shoot well. The commitment to the game we are hunting requires we take a shot that is reasonable and within our abilities. The safety of others in the field requires we know the terminus of the lead we launch. We need to be skilled in our tracking abilities to be able to follow the animal which, for whatever reason, keeps going even after a well placed shot, or two. It happens and if you think otherwise you have not taken much game.

There is an old saying, "beware the man who has but one gun for he will shoot it well". This may be true but having a selection to choose from allows the hunter to take afield a rifle that is suited to the terrain and game he will be around. The 270 Winchester is a fine rifle but I wouldn't use one in heavy brush just as I would prefer it over a 45-70, which is a great heavy brush gun, on an open plain where the ranges would exceed a couple of hundred yards.

To say I use just this or that for Elk and this or that for Deer indicates a limited choice for the game or a propensity to hunt in just one kind of country.

Fellows, I'm not trying to give anyone a bad time here and I have enjoyed the many well thought out comments and ballistic comparisons that have been made. It's always interesting to see how little the opinions change as people become involved with a particular caliber or velocity range. I personally went thru a phase where if it was below 4000 FPS it wasn't worth shooting. Even went to the edge and had a one-off 6MM wildcat built up on a belted '06 case. Lots of speed and accuracy but not so great on barrel life. That rifle will kill elk or groundhogs very dead with one well placed shot. Have learned that a selection of calibers is lots more fun and gives you way more options in your hunting. Even when I go after big game anymore where I have to hunt near a road and tend to sit and watch open areas a lot I take a big bore rifle as well as something with some range to it.

Keep the discussion going, this topic has filled many a night around a campfire and is really what keeps gun magazines going.

 

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/06 belted case?

 

I reload everything myself, but in my 7mmSTW I shoot the Hornady Interbond for Elk, deer ect. It stays together well and is quite effective.

 

Been several versions of this over the years. Involves annealing the brass, running it thru a series of dies to progressively form the belt. This gives better headspace control and allows repeated neck sizing only when reloading. Not uncommon to get over 100 loadings from a piece of brass. Proper reheating and tempering of the brass is critical to avoid having blown primers at normal pressures. Believe this was covered in a book by Col. Townsend Wheelen in the '40s and touched on by P. O. Ackley in one of his must read books. Undoubtedly many other reference sources out there as well. Good for a specialized rifle but way more trouble than it's worth in most cases.