1) he never said MN has so many elk, just that we have some. Getting a license is very hard, that is why we go out to other states.

2) I agree

3) My .300 kicks no more then my .270WSM or my .308, and all are plenty loud. Any centerfire will pretty much scare your horse.

4) I would pass on the fat chick and go home alone [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

5) I don't know if your reference was still to Chinchgub, but MN is not an eastern state. Don't give us that talk about your game in Utah is so much bigger then everything out here too. I spent several years living and hunting in Alaska and had a blast, but I love MN hunting just as much. Please show us a picture of your horn collection so we can see how it compares to ANY Minnesotan. I don't think you realize how big of a hunting state MN is. btw, you can see some of my kills in my profile, nothing monsterous, but good for me [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] I too agree that one gun is best, however what is the fun in that???

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

One gun theory is very good and very sound, but of course we need to keep that to ourselves guys. Mrs Shady needs to know how much I still need that 243 Cooper Montana Varminter, 22-250 Remington 700 Varminter, Winchester 94 for around camp, Kimber bolt 17 HMR, 700 CDL 7 mag, buncha hot rod parts for one of my 10-22's, and another trunkload of handguns.

Stuff I really do need. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Ok my .02 cents. I have not taken many elk just a few. And yes I do live in Montana. I started shooting around 100-200 rounds of reloaded 30-06 a month in 3 different rifles. I love the 30-06. I was out one day a few hunting seasons ago and literally walked up on a heard of 25 plus elk. I raised my scope and was looking in the trees for legs as everything I seen in the open were cows. When all of a sudden my scope went black. I lowered my rifle just a hair and about 20 yards in front of me (I was standing in the middle of an old logging road in my pretty bright orange) was the largest elk I had ever seen. You know the story, in the field it was a monster. Well I backed off the power setting on the scope and was able to get a full view, well kind of, at least enough to see the killing shot area. Squeezed the trigger and sent the first 180 grain sierra grand slam bullet flying. NOTHING. Crap what happened. I shoot all the time, even different yardages, uphill, downhill. The bull just stood there literally looking at me. Grabbed the bolt and let round #2 go and the bull fell to his front knees. Getting back up and walking over to the edge of the old logging road and walked out of site. %&**%*$@ my first elk and I just screwed up. I was shocked as I would have never imagined I could have been that poor of a shot. Well I walked over to the edge and about 20 yards down hill (of course)he was piled up. So I now have a 325 class 6x6 bull hanging on my living room wall. What happen to the first shot? Well the butcher found the bullet in the right front shoulder bone, stuck. I have NEVER taken a bull elk more then 100 yards and that might even be pushing it. I don?t take long shots although I feel very comfortable doing so, I just have never had to. Moral of the story. CARRY WHAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH, if you believe in it, it will do the best job it can for you. The rest is up to you. I use to shoot a lot but then I moved from Montana and had nowhere easy to go shoot. Sold all of my reloading stuff and now have moved home and need to get all the reloading equipment again. A real bad story, My son was pulled up on a 140-150 class mule this weekend(his first attempt at a buck) and had 2 misfires in a row using factory ammo. Missed the deer. After having my gun checked out today at a gun shop (yes 1 of my 30-06) and finding that there is more then enough firing pin pressure Remington is getting a letter from me. We burned up the rest of the box and 3 out of 20 shells in the box would not fire. No they did not get wet of moist. Oh well I just told my son it makes us better hunters.

 

Well said Tencubed. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Since this reply a few years ago, I have come to the conclusion that the 165g. bullet is probably the best bullet weight for this cartrige. From small deer to large elk, the 165 will hit a little harder & in some cases fly flatter. Through experimenting, I have found a load that is "wickedly accurate" @ 200. I also added that you will "save money reloading & you will shoot more". I take that back but in a good way. You will shoot more, chances are a lot more to the point that you will spend a small chunk buying various bullets, weights, powders & what not.

Don't get me wrong, reloading saves "bucu dolla" over store bought ammo. You just tend to shoot a lot more![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]

 

It's interesting that you posted this. When I read the original post, as brought forward here, I considered posting about the effectiveness and efficiency of the 165 to 168 grain bullets in the '06. Many tests have been done with the bullets in this caliber and cartridges of this general case capacity. Most have come to the same conclusion you did. The old 30-40 and the 308 Win. also do well with this bullet but both of the latter do a bit better with a few grains less weight to push.

Like you I have found the Sierra bullets perform very reliably on game and target. The 165 you refer to, in both the HPBT and SPBT versions, has proven to be extremely consistent over the years. Targets fired many years ago can be consistently duplicated today using the same components and rifle. Sierra's 85 grain HPBT 6MM bullet is one of the very few that will not leak lead when pushed above 4200 FPS and still give good terminal performance at velocities in the mid 2000 FPS range.

Your comments about the cost savings when reloading are interesting as well. Apparently you have discovered the "savings" can be eaten up by a lot more shooting. This is just what is needed to improve a persons ability to make the shot of a lifetime when the opportunity presents itself. The hours spent at the loading bench and on the range as well as the time educating oneself about the internal and external ballistics involved simply add to the overall enjoyment of the sport.

Glad to see younger shooters are still doing the field testing and experimenting that help make the shooting sports what they are. As long as we continue to support organizations such as Ducks Unlimited and the NRA, to name just a couple, we have a fair chance of being able to continue to pursue our sport. Needless to say, I am very concerned about the recent elections and the outcomes.

 

I was just browsing thru the Marlin web site and see they have introduced, in conjunction with Hornady who has the new ammo on it's site, a new cartridge called the "308 Marlin Express" and a couple of lever action rifles chambered for it. Apparently both will be available in early 2007.

I thought I would bring this old thread forward and make a few comments on this "new" cartridge Marlin and Hornady have made available to the general public.

This round is described in the Marlin site as a rimmed cartridge. The Hornaday site shows a picture of the new round and it appears to be a semi-rimmed rather than a fully rimmed case. The velocities listed are over 2600 FPS with a 160 grain bullet. Not bad for a lever action for sure but just how "new and different" is this offering.

The velocities are just slightly above those of the 30/30 Improved (Ackley version) about the same as the .30 Lever Power (by Fred Ward) and something below the 30/40 Improved (Ackley).

Can't give you the dates that each of these wildcats were first developed but the first two were made for use in, besides various hi-walls and custom rifles, the Model 94 Winchester and the latter in the Model 95 Winchester. All were, I've been told, used successfully in various other lever guns. This information from a book printed in 1962. Once again, nothing really new under the sun just factories coming out with what the experimenters and custom shops have been doing for years. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

This cartridge will bring to the lever action shooter another option in a reasonably priced rifle that will have factory ammo available.

The Winchester model 88 chambered for the Winchester 308 is more powerful than this new round but marginally so. I never cared for the 88 as a saddle rifle, it just didn't come out of the scabbard easily perhaps because of the pistol grip stock, and suspect these new Marlins may be a bit unhandy as a boot gun as well.

Again, just my opinions on all this and I encourage constructive comments, criticisms and observations.

 

I read about this in one of my gun magazines. As usual, my first reaction was "All right, new lever action performance!" But once I settle in, read and contemplate, I get to the same conclusion as usual, and here is my humble opinion.

Yes the new 308 is faster and more effective than the old thuddy-thuddy. The Marlin lever achieves this with a longer barrel. The Marlin levers are bigger and heavier than a Winchester in the first place. Now you put a scope on it to maximize your work with the extended range capability.

Okay, now rather than a 5 pound lever gun you carry in one hand with quick reaction capability you have a big, heavy, scoped rifle that can shoot longer yardage. Well for me, when I want that I have Remington 700's which shoot faster, farther, more accurately. The whole idea to me of the lever action therefore is diminished through these improvements.

So again when they try to make a lever gun something it's not, they make it less of what it was and not as good as what you can get otherwise.

Now that's just me, in my area of hunting in Montana, where I'll use bolt guns for open spaces and desire a lever gun to be light, handy, quick, and in the woods. Other people perhaps in the midwest and east may find this new Marlin to cover all their needs very well.

SR

 

Interesting, thanks for the info.

I am a big fan of the lever action, and own a Model 94 30-30, a Marlin 30-30, and previously owned a BLR in both .308 and .243. Once my kids start getting to hunting age I am going to start them on the lever actions.

 

I believe you have a handle on what is happening here. Another "new" cartridge with "new" rifles to sell thru the hunting magazines. There are a lot of folks, like me ( [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img] ), that "really need" this new rifle to fill a perceived gap in their collection. I think I will pass on this one but have ordered a stainless version of the 450 Marlin came out with. Main reason for this was to avoid having high velocity 45-70 ammo around that may get mixed into ammo loaded for the old, and weaker, Trapdoor Springfields. Don't want to take the risk of a blown up gun.

You are right about the weight and length of barrel issues, the Marlins are not the light and handy carbine the traditional Model 94 is. They are not even as handy as the heavier and longer Model 95. The Marlin Guide Gun is much closer to the feel of the 94 with it's straight grip stock and shorter barrel but you sacrifice a lot of velocity due to barrel length.

Marlin and Hornaday have used a slightly lighter bullet to build the velocity a bit, something handloaders are familiar with, and, in conjunction with a longer barrel, have extended the range of some of the older cartridges. This new 308 Marlin round is building on that theme and is really the same thing done in custom shops for years.

I still think the real advances have been in the bullets available to the reloader and manufacturers.