I copied this post from another forum.

"If you have a friend that has a 650 you may want to compare the two before you install the EPI black spring. I tryed it for a day and took it out, it is great for bottom end but the spring is so stiff it won't let the clutches shift out. I ran mine with a friends 650 and he could leave me 5-6 quad lenghts in a 1/4 mile. I reinstalled my stock spring and we were dead even."


The reason I am asking is I have the mods in my signiture, and I have a friend who's totally stock P650 is now much faster than my modded one. He beats me 3-4 bike lenghts in 200 yds easily. His tops out at 64, mine at 61 and his gets there much faster, he can pass me easily from behind if I am in front of him.

(I do usually beat him out of the hole) The funny thing is before I put my black spring and did some other mods, we were about even, I know mine weighs somewhat more that his, but not enough to justify his dominence, this is driving me nuts.

I have been fooling around with my carb, thinking that was the problem but now I think it might be the black spring.

Anyone have any thoughts on this issue, or simlar experience.

 

yes the black spring will take a few MPH off your top end speed ... If you buddy has an '03, they are faster, ( IMO ) as proven in my 1/4 mile driveway drags ( which is how I test performance mods ) if he has the original dunflat's they are lighter than your Bear Claws ( most people don't realize how much tire / wheel weight, as well as tire diameter, effect your speed & accelleration )... if you put in a 360 or 700 belt you may regain you original top end... I see you haven't installed a Hole Shot module yet ??? this mod will leave your buddy playing catch up for sure... WAM

 

I agree, it slows it down. your driven clutch has to twist to shift out, (helix), the more side pressure the harder to twist, the more power that is robbed, but the more side pressure the less belt wear.

I also agree on the tires, rotateing mass, tires, clutches, fly wheels, any thing that turns. the heavier they are the more power lossed.

 

Why did you buy the P650? To race down a gravel road? I bought one because it has power, has a locker, solid rear axle and a sporty ride. I bought my P650 for the mud and water.

Why did I buy a V-Force 700 to race down gravel roads, jump and go fast.

The black sping is the best thing you can do to your P650, it keeps that belt in good working order with less slipage. So what if it takes off a few mph and you loose by a quad lenght or two.

I'm just tired of hearing about people buying 4x4 quads and racing them and then they come on the forums and talk about how they can go faster so they can beat so and so or ask why they lost when they heard you could do this and that.

Just ranting, it was over due. I'm done. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

EDIT: This is not a flame or anything towards anyone. This subject just provided me the opportunity to say what I had to say. Don't take it personal please.

 

That's why i have alway's thought that you need to put an aftermarket primary spring in along with the black secondary, as it will allow both clutches to work the way they should and improve accelleration......

 

Thanks for the info staak, beetle, and shotgun,

bbteram, excuse me, but this a forum to to share information about your quad? and try to improve it, at least I thought this was!! What fun would ATV's be if could not try and outrun your good buddy.

You much not get out too much, but quite a bit of people are buying these 4 x 4 P 650's to race them, and race each other on them. Have you ever herd of something called GNCC? wonder why Mike Penland starting selling the lime green plastic?

Look at alltoys on here, at all the time and money he has spent to improve his and all our priaires, I don't think most people on here would agree with you about going fast.

I don't mean to say anything rude to you, but your response is to my question is pretty ridiculous, rude.

Yes. Suprise! myself and a lot of other people on here I want to ride my 650 like a sport atv, yes I wanna outrun and heaven forbid race other people on it. I also wanna splash mud holes and climb steep stuff, come on [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Not everyone on hear can afford a priaire and a v-force, and even if I could I would not be so rude about it. I just wanted some advice, about something I thought could be beneficial to others on here. I did not need a lecture today. I get enoght of those from my wife [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Its not just about the P650, its about all 4x4 quads people buy. I see it all the time on forums, not just this one. Wasn't lecturing you, the post was not towards you just a rant. I had to get it out of my system, sorry if you thought it was a flame towards you. I'm not a bad person I don't like to start crap on the forums. Don't take it so personal, I wasn't trying to be rude...sorry.

Its ok to go fast and wanting to go faster that is your choice. Have fun with what ever quad you want. I'm not going to do like some people do and pick your post apart and try to defend my point. I had no point really, just ranting and needed a place to do it. Your thread helped me do that.

Anyways, if you do the mods like shotgun says with the black spring you should be were you were stock. Shotgun made a thread about drilling holes into the clutch. I don't want you to think I don't want to help you, have a great day and good luck beating your friend. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]


EDIT: I have the black spring installed on my P650, it helped alot down low and with my outlaws I will be running its going to really help. I did loose a fair bit of top speed too, I would say about 5-8 kph or so. I haven't really pushed it since I got the spring. If you want more top end wait for the ultimate ignition or get the DG Top End module.

 

I think we should use the black spring AND shotgun's adjustable weights or a weight proportioned to upshift like crazy at higher RPMS, that way we can have our belt tension, low speed umph, but still retain our high speed.

Whatcha think, shotgun? What do we have to do?

Maybe the 700 belt is the easiest thing for this. A different primary might do the trick. Same starting pressure, but a little less compressed pressure.

 

All I can say is this is very interesting. I may put the stock secondary spring back in for me next trip to VA. Im looking to race some Grizzlys and Pol 700 "if I can find any". Im also looking to make some money. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Letcher, I will be racing my P650 at Beaver Airport. Do you know where that is?

 

Nyroc;

All we have to do is get our losted RPM's back. If we do that by clutch weights, buy weights with more of a curve, this will give more pull in mid range.

The other way is lighten your clutch.

Until someone get the ignition cured, we are limited to lighten, to raise the RPM's.

If we got our RPM's up enought, then we would need heavier clutch weights, then we would get more grip on the belt.

I don't think spending the money to get 2 grams lighter clutch weights and paying $---, is the answer, drill 8 holes and take the family out to dinner 3-4 times instead.

Just my ..............02