The question is where to start.

First of all these test will be done again because I forgot my GPS [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img] BUT, I have stayed here in VA and my wife went home today. I am having her mail me the GPS, the Pink spring, the stock secondary spring, my new 700 belt and all the tools neccesary to change it. My next report will be better and more indepth than this one with hopefully a belt comparison and secondary spring comparison. Oh yeah, I got up with a guy who has a V700 who is very interested in trying the springs in his V700. So you V700 guys may see some data for yours as well. We did all the below test in 4 hours on Saturday and ended when it was to dark to see.

Here are the parameters for the test.

ATV parameters

Subject: 2002 Kawasaki Prairie 650
Tires/wheels: 25" ITP ATRS/C-Series wheels with 7psi. "will run with 5psi next time"
jetting: 145 Rear/142 Front, keihin jets. Hand made spacers .030" for both carb needles.
Air Mods: Twin-Air air filter and Diamond G Snorkel.
Extra mods: Diamond G Hole Shot module and EPI Black secondary spring.
Belt deflection: 25mm
Idle speed: 1100 +/- 50
Tachometer used: Daytona Digital tach with memory feature. "impossible to test without memory feature"
Gas: 87octane no other additives

Envirnment parameters

Elevation: unknown "NO dam GPS"
Temperature: 70-75 dry
Test Surface: Hard packed Dirt "best I could do"
Distance tested: 300' 600' and 850' "No top end test could be performed because of lack of distance."
Rider weight: 225lbs

Spring lengths:

P650: 2 3/8"
P700: 2 7/16
EPI Bright/Green: 2 3/4
EPI Red: 2 15/16
Dalton Blue: 2 1/2"
Dalton Plain/White: 2 3/4"
Dalton Black/white: 3 1/8"

Check nyrocs or manufactures specs for other spring data.

Test results:

RPM engagement of springs "all data results are avg of 3 engagement tries and are +/- 20 rpms"

P650: 1500rpms
P700: untested "ran out of daylight"
EPI bright/Green: 2040 rpms
EPI Red: 2290
Dalton Blue: 1850
Dalton Plain/White: 1970
Dalton Black/White: 2470 rpms "Even thought mfg says the EPI Red is higher in engagement the tach and feel always showed the Dalton Black/white as having a stronger take off. End results show this too"

The above test will not be done again UNLESS I install the 700 belt and change the deflection.

The below test will be done again with the GPS and the P700 and EPI Pink springs.

Test parameters: AVG of 3 runs. I know its on dirt but the times were very consistant. They would have been faster and more consistant on hard top surface but this is what I had to work with. The speeds is where I needed the GPS as speeds only varied 2mph and that "TENTH" was missing.

300' (100 yards) RPM, Speed, Elapsed Time test results:

P650: 6646.6,... 46.6,... 6.64 sec
P700: Untested
EPI Pink: Untested
EPI Bright/Green: 6590.0,... 47.5,... 6.54sec
EPI Red: 6586.6,... 47,... 6.52sec
Dalton Blue: 6700.0,... 47.3,... 6.65sec
Dalton Pln/Wht 6533.3,... 47.2,... 6.60
Dalton Blk/Wht 6670.0,... 47.5,... 6.51sec

600' (200 yards) RPM, Speed, ET,

P650: 7446.6,... 57.3,... 10.34sec
EPI Bright/Green: 7483.3,... 57.6,... 10.15sec
EPI Red: 7486.6,... 57.5,... 10.06
Dalton Blue: 7450.0,... 57.3,... 10.29
Dalton Pln/Wht: 7480.0,... 57.6,... 10.15
Dalton blk/Wht: 7506.6,... 57.8,... 10.08sec

If anyone wants to know the 3 speeds, rpms or ETs of any spring I will gladly let them know. I just put it in avg to make it look better and less confusing. I also used a + system for getting speeds. For example if a speed just hit 57 as my brother in law past me he told me 57. If he was already at 57 and it just hit 58 as he went by me then I counted it as 57.5mph. I know this is BS and Im very sorry and appologize. This is why Im staying another F#%$&G week and doing the test over with the GPS.

Below are results of ONE run at 850'. Only top speed and RPMs data were taken. If you will notice the springs gain roughly 10mph between 300 and 600'. After 600' to 850' the speed increase was roughly 2mph. Im satisfied that 500-600' is the maximum drag race distance the avg P650 wants to be in. Anything over 600' and you will loose ground.

Spring: Speed RPM
P650 60,... 7650
EPI B/Green 60+,... 7700
EPI Red 60,... 7670
Dalton Blue 59+,... 7640
Dalton Pln/Wht 60,... 7690
Dalton Blk/wht 60,... 7680

20mph to Wide Open Throttle for a 300' run. Simply put, running 20mph at the 300' mark and opening it up and racing to the 600' mark. Results are only 1 run. Maybe 3 next time if you guys want 3 runs.

Spring Speed RPM ET
P650 Untested I forgot about this test and pulled the spring out first.
EPI B/Green 51,... 6810,... 5.28
EPI Red 51,... 6850,... 5.16 "I know this time was fast but I had him run it 3 times.
Dalton Blue 50,... 6790,... 5.38
Dalton Pln/Wht 52,... 6850,... 5.31
Dalton Blk/Wht 51+,... 6890,... 5.28

Last spring I had in on Saturday was the EPI red. Sunday we did one test with the Red spring with 100octane gas. I will post the results for 300 and 600' runs. They are an AVG of 3 runs.

300' RPM 6656.6,... Speed 47.3,... ET 6.53
600' RPM 7460.0,... Speed 57.0,... ET 10.18

If you will compare these with the other data for the Red spring you will notice the speed and times are slower. I am conviced that 100octane is no better for my P650 than 87 is, actually its worse. It must be the compression.?

I put in the EPI B/Green spring on Sunday and ran it all day in drag races. I could hang with a piped 400ex in 325' drag strip. I had 100octane gas that slowed me down and the Dalton Blk/wht spring would have been a better choice but is vicious on take offs, much more than the EPI Red is. The 400ex was faster than me but I was at his rear tires and once beside him for an even race. We raced 5 times. If the distance was longer he would have pulled away more. I did get to race a Grizzly 660 and Killed it two atv lengths back. The suprise of the day was when a "so called" stock Polaris 500HO beat my brother in laws Rincon by an ATV length. He raced a 500HO earlier this year on the same drag strip and beat it. So we are not so sure that other 500HO was stock. Needless to say I killed that Polaris 500HO also.

This is the end of the first series. Any comments or suggestions for next weekend?

After reading this I need to change that I raced a Grizzly 660 not a 600 as I had posted first.

 

Im sorry the above report is so hard to read. I had it spaced out to make it easy instead its harder to read. I will have to do it different next week.

 

K.O.D. Even though I havent digested the data yet, I'll print it up... I for one can really appriciate what you've attempted to do... it's much more difficult than anyone but a handfull who've tried it know... so much data, & variables & so little time... thanks for posting, look forward to the updates...WAM

 

Good work Tim.

But, won't your clutch slip more because you didn't do your tests on pavement? How can your rpm's be valid? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]


I just see better times from a better holeshot; and no change near top end. Too bad we can't measure backshift. That is where trialing the springs on a track will show each springs full effect.

For straight out drags, backshift shouldn't matter though. Go for broke on holeshot if you can keep the nose down.

It is interesting that the longer Black/White engages higher than the red; and seems to give better times.

 

KOD

Good information, alot of hard work. good job.

It's interesting in the 300' test that the dalton blue had the most RPM's, second fastest speed and the slowest time.

There's been a lot of good information in all the testing, I hope someone is compileing all the different tests.

Were tests done in 2 or 4 wheel drive?

 

DWB, where would the RPMs be invalid?

Only negative thing doing the test on dirt instead of pavement is the increased wheel spin resulting in possibly slower ETs. Even though a spring has a higher engagement such as the EPI red and Dalton black/white and should result in increased wheel spin "which SHOULD result in slower ETs" this hasent been the case yet.

Shotgun, it was in 2wd. I have always had better drag times in 2wd so I decided to make my runs that way. If anyone wants me to run in 4wd I will do it to see how much it will slow me down.

I also noticed that about the Dalton Blue. Here are the 3 runs for that spring at 300'.

RPMs: 6700, 6710, 6690
Speed: 47, 48, 47
Time: 6.68, 6.62, 6.65

Go figure?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

UMMM,...I like the way that format looks. I might do my next results like that. I sure want it to be easier to read than the way this one turned out.

newbeetle, how is the belt test coming?

I called my wife today and told her to mail me the GPS, new 700 belt, spacers, stock secondary spring and all the tools needed to change it with. They should be here by Thursday. A guy is sending me the Pink spring also. Tarrot, Im not sure what happend to your spring. My wife said it wasnt in the mail and no delivery notice was left on the door. She is bringing my stock tires/wheels on Friday when she comes.

Hopefully if all goes well I will have a much more accurate "GPS" and informative "spring, belt, tires" test next Monday.

 

Do a comparison between 2wd and 4wd. In any dirt/gravel/sand drag I've always clocked considerably better in 4wd.

 

Novakaw650, I have had request for 4x4 comparison. Stakk has requested the P700, EPI B/G and the Dalton P/W spring to be tested in 0-35mph run in 4x4 in low range. If I do this test will it be what you are looking for? If you want a complete test like the first one just in 4x4 I can do it. It will double the runs but I dont see any reason it cant be done.

Here is what I done today.


Today I rode 20.3 miles of technical terrain. I rode with the EPI Bright/green spring. It performed excellent. At one time I had to back up on the trail and turn because of a fallen tree. The trail was tight and I backed over a 35-40 degree hill to turn. I used a tree as a backstop. I would never trust getting stopped dropping my *** over a 35 degree hill with a 200' bottom LOL. ANYWAY, I figured this would be a safe test for trying to pull out with the spring. It all comes natural, you WILL hold the brakes as you give it gas to pull out. The RPMS will already have the Bright/Green spring engaged as you release the brakes. Passed that test. Other things I noticed is it has very managable downshifting "for me" and going down steep hills the engine braking will kick out at 1500rpms. Rev it back to 2200-2400 and the engine braking will engage again. Gotta love that TACH. Also, I noticed some ticking noise when going down steep hills.

I have already installed the Dalton Plain/White spring. Tomorrow Im going to run the same path "boring" but I need to do it to make a fair comparison of these two springs.

Thursday I will put the P650 stock spring back in and run this test again to give comparisons as to when the engine braking kicks out and what it takes to make it engage again. Plus, I want to run it first for the second spring test and will already have it in.

 

Here is my trail report on the Dalton Plain/White spring.

I rode close to 39 miles today with nothing but excellent results again. The engagement rpms is less than the EPI B/G and the hold back is more. I got the spring to engage at 1750 +/- 10. This is by creeping up on the engagement by 10rpms at a time. The EPI B/G was 1920 +/-10 yesterday. The reason for the difference is in this, and the first time is because I did the test and not Erdil. This test is much more accurate. My idle rpm is still 1100 +/- 50.

The Dalton P/W spring never did actually disengage. It would slow down to around a 1000 rpm then have a surgeing effect. Like; disengage, engage, disengage, engage.

On the 325-335' drag strip I feel the EPI B/G is still faster. Today I rode by the drag strip and tested the Dalton P/W spring. I did it in 2wd and 4wd. The 2wd showed a little bit slower than the EPI B/G did on sunday. "EPI B/G was only ran in 2wd on Sunday".

Here are the results of 3 runs each timed at 325-335' in 2wd and 4wd today.

2wd 7.43 sec @ 49mph
2wd 7.47 sec @ 49mph
2wd 7.48 sec @ 49mph

4wd 7.25 sec @ 50mph
4wd 7.28 sec @ 50mph
4wd 7.23 sec @ 50mph

My friends, .20sec is a huge difference at 330?? feet. Someone said I would get better times in 300' in 4wd than 2wd. I didnt believe them at first because I had ran that test with the Kodiak. 2wd was always faster with it. NOW, with the P650 I have a lot more wheel spin. So much wheel spin in fact that is slows me down. I can put the P650 in 4wd and get less wheel spin and get faster times. Todays test has made a believer out of me with the P650.

YOU WILL GET FASTER TIMES IN 300'RUNNING IN 4WD THAN 2WD.

Im tired. My heel hurt some. Im not sure I will ride tomorrow and I havent changed out the spring. If I ride tomorrow it will be for a joy ride only.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Tim

 

KOD,
Thanx for the detailed report! Good job once again.

Just to be clear, I must ask you if the drag strip you used had a dirt surface. I assume this is the case because on a hard asphalt surface where I've been doing test runs, I always get slightly faster times in 2wd (no wheelspin is present here). However, I get faster times using 4wd on looser surfaces where wheelspin is a factor.

PS - thanx again for all of your hard work in testing these spring!