What do you fellas thinks gonna happen? Kawasaki needs to kick it in gear. Flash back to the now old days when rompin stompin 650 Prairie came out and blew the doors off everything and started it all. Now, us Kawi Brute Clansmen are two stages behind! This cannot stand troops lol. Granted the Brutes are still nipping right on the heels of the Can-ams and the new T-cat, but who likes nippn heels lol. Im not looking for something overboard. A butter smooth new Brute Force 900cc. FULL 900cc. AND not have the damn thing de-tuned where you have the same situation with the 650i and 750i now. The vast majority of people dont want to mess with mods and changing things. Looks like we will have to settle for bold new colors until August or so of 09 to see if somethin new is in store. Whats yalls opinions.

 

All the big bores are detuned a serious amount. If Kawi ever released a bigger bore it would be detuned just like all the others. A motor of that capacity not detuned is dangerous for the vast majority of ppl.

But more power is always nice, problem is it never stops. It doesn't matter if you have 50hp or 80hp or 120hp. After awhile it starts to feel boring and slow and you want more. Thing that bothers me is that when a certain quad isn't redesigned from the ground up every couple years now, consumers complain and say the mfg is behind the times. Quads are progressing at such a fast rate now, that your relatively new model becomes almost absolete in a couple years.

Don't take offense at what I say personally tho, just my observations. Heck since I ride sleds in the winter for work, hopping on my buddies Outlander 650 is kinda boring...

 

Ah bud no offense, it is a good point, seeing as when i got my 650i I was floored by the power and thought I couldnt possibly want more, but i got used to it and do lol. I already thought the same on that, It's just a little pride, Kawi started it all, they should stay in the forefront I say. Not neccessarily jump out with a FULL 1000cc Brute that would obviously murder everything, seeing as where the lil ole 633cc stands lol. I've owned a few different brands, but I'm really most proud of my brute, it has been very reliable and a nice machine, so come on with it Kawi [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Kawasaki hands are tied, along with Suzuki, Yamaha & yes, even Honda.
All b/c of a agreement these four agreed to, the Voluntary Standard, consent decree back in I believe in 2000 or 01 but not sure on those dates.
I've been searching for this agreement lately but haven't found the right section yet, I have been looking in the ANSI/SVIA 1-2001, found a bunch of stuff on how our goverment comes to decisions on ATV's & how they are labeled for user's. Hopefully I am looking in the right place, this ANSI/SVIA 1-2001 has a ton of reading material to cover, I don't recall how many pages but it is a huge amount of reading.
For example Two-ups (atv's) are really called a "tandem atv" in the ANSI/SVIA.
I read somewhere last yr on one of these many many atv Forums that this Voluntary Standard was due to expire soon, when it does expire I expect Kawasaki will have a huge answer to the Big Bore War.
This Voluntary Standard is on "Weight Limit", All four agreed to a max of 605#'s, there is No way Kawasaki can bring out its New BF900 and keep it at the same weight as the BF750. Everything has to be beefed up, frame, axles, tranny, clutches And the list goes on.
C/A, Polaris & Cat never signed this agreement, that is why the Polaris's are so heavy & continue to be heavy even with their new '09 850.
Cat & Polaris lobbied the Minn. State Goverment to have the cc limit raised, which they succeeded in doing, now it is 1000cc max for a ATV, there is a weight limit too on a 1000cc atv but I don't recall what it is but the weight limit is higher than what the New '09 Polaris 850 weighs in at.

 

What I don't get is how Kawi manages to make a 750 vtwin @652lbs CURB weight, while the Outlander 800/650 with their weight saving frame design, suspension design, are still @663lbs DRY weight. Also I read somewhere that Can-am's dry weight does not include tires/rims, thus their actual weights are higher than stated...I would guess that Kawi is slightly over their weights, but still, I don't get why Can-am twins weigh so much...or maybe I should say I don't get why Kawi twins weigh so little...

And yeah, I heard about that 'Gentlemans Agreement' that the Jap mfg's have going, I thought the weight limit was 606lbs, but whatever 1lb is no difference...also they signed a consent decree in the late 80's, to stop making trikes, didn't know this newer weight agreement was called one as well...I just thought it was an agreement that they made, didn't know they had an expiry date for it...cool...maybe when it expires there will be dramatic changes...or not lol...

 

Hmm I did not know that at all, interesting indeed. I hope it goes away very soon lol. BRUTE FORCE 950 WHO'S FEELIN ME LOL. Need to find out when that deal can be breached.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>while the Outlander 800/650 with their weight saving frame design</end quote></div>

When I here the words "weight saving" and "frame" used together about a Utility ATV I just gringe.

 

i feel you Kernel although im already riding a full 900cc 07 BF and im scaring them all even the sport quads grrrrrrrrrrr. lol

 

Kawasaki has been P!$$'n me off for some time now. I'm not even looking for total redesigns......just a random tweek or upgrade here or there would be great. Kawasaki seems to be in the habit of introducing a machine, selling it as is for as long as possible and then just dropping it when the sales drop off. That is borderline criminal in my opinion. Why they do this I will never now. It must be cheaper in the long run to do little upgrades and keep a machine current and popular than it is to make totally new machines after the horrably dwindling sales of a machine that has "run its corse".



I'm still waiting for something other than cool new colors for the V-Force. But I know that will never come. The sales #'s of the V-Force must be just disgusting by now. Who wants to pay $6850 for a 2004 "09 V-Force". They killed it and don't even realize it or just don't care. What a shame.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Krait

What I don't get is how Kawi manages to make a 750 vtwin @652lbs CURB weight, while the Outlander 800/650 with their weight saving frame design, suspension design, are still @663lbs DRY weight. Also I read somewhere that Can-am's dry weight does not include tires/rims, thus their actual weights are higher than stated...I would guess that Kawi is slightly over their weights, but still, I don't get why Can-am twins weigh so much...or maybe I should say I don't get why Kawi twins weigh so little...



And yeah, I heard about that 'Gentlemans Agreement' that the Jap mfg's have going, I thought the weight limit was 606lbs, but whatever 1lb is no difference...also they signed a consent decree in the late 80's, to stop making trikes, didn't know this newer weight agreement was called one as well...I just thought it was an agreement that they made, didn't know they had an expiry date for it...cool...maybe when it expires there will be dramatic changes...or not lol...</end quote></div>

You are right... the "dry" weight most manufacturers have released in recent years are total B.S. because they do indeed exclude the tires/rims and in some cases the seat.....

Suzuki released the 2009 z400 as a 400-plus pound machine and that is not because of the fuel injection LOL...... it is because they are now doing "ride" weight which includes a full tank of gas, oil and even tires and rims....

I hope all the factories start doing this.

These huge 4x4 900cc monsters are all close to 900 pounds when in full riding dress....... that is just absurd when you think about it....... these things really are big enough to have a roll cage and a seatbelt at this point.... if something that big rolls on you - you are going to be hurt or killed.....

Last year some guy up here in NY rolled his Polaris into himself and drown in about 8 inches of water because he was stuck under it and could not move. I would not want to ride anything that big.....