Kawasaki 2012 Brute Force 750 EPS ride and review
#31
05-30-2011, 09:28 PM
Pro Rider
Question: Why didn't kawasaki make the HP up around 70? That is what the Polaris and Can-Am make and I would think Kawie, who started the big bore craze with the 650 vtwin prairie would want to be in the lead. Any reason why?
#32
05-31-2011, 10:19 AM
The current 750 reached its physical/mechanical limit as far as how big it can grow because the base crank/cylinders/case are still the same original 650 size. You can bore out only so much. Kawi needs to invest lots of $$ and time in order to come out for a newly designed higher hp quad. I think many companies are reluctant to invest something big at a time like this. That's my 2-cents.
#33
06-04-2011, 12:12 AM
The current 750 reached its physical/mechanical limit as far as how big it can grow because the base crank/cylinders/case are still the same original 650 size. You can bore out only so much. Kawi needs to invest lots of $$ and time in order to come out for a newly designed higher hp quad. I think many companies are reluctant to invest something big at a time like this. That's my 2-cents.
What?
This is why the cams are tiny and the timing is retarded and the compression was stuck at a mere 8.8 to 1? Because they reached its mechanical limits? They've got PLENTY of head room in the motor they just choose not to use it.
You can build a mild 750 11.5 to 1 (that runs on 93) with a real set of cams and out run a can-am 800 all day every day. They can make as much horsepower as they want but they simply choose not to.
#34
06-04-2011, 05:49 AM
What?
This is why the cams are tiny and the timing is retarded and the compression was stuck at a mere 8.8 to 1? Because they reached its mechanical limits? They've got PLENTY of head room in the motor they just choose not to use it.
You can build a mild 750 11.5 to 1 (that runs on 93) with a real set of cams and out run a can-am 800 all day every day. They can make as much horsepower as they want but they simply choose not to.
This is why the cams are tiny and the timing is retarded and the compression was stuck at a mere 8.8 to 1? Because they reached its mechanical limits? They've got PLENTY of head room in the motor they just choose not to use it.
You can build a mild 750 11.5 to 1 (that runs on 93) with a real set of cams and out run a can-am 800 all day every day. They can make as much horsepower as they want but they simply choose not to.
dump $3k into a 750 just so it will hardly outrun a stock rotax?????
dump the same amount into the rotax and see what that will out run....
#36
11-18-2011, 10:12 PM
I just bought a 2012 750 Brute (Super Black) a few weeks ago and love it. Had three Outlander 650's before that and put over 12,000km's on them. I will take the Brute any day over my previous Outlanders. I don't measure the quality of a machine by how fast it goes. This new Brute is awesome and it would smoke any of my previous 60 HP Outlanders off the line every time. Always feels like you are in low range with the high range speeds.
I have not bottomed out on it yet and have almost 400km's on it. On these same trails I would have hit rocks many times with the Outlanders.
Only thing I don't like is the roll to the outside on power slides, but that can be fixed with good body english.
26" Zillas
Full Kawi Skids
Kawi Thumb / Grip Warmers
Kimpex Storage Box
2012 750 Brute EPS
I have not bottomed out on it yet and have almost 400km's on it. On these same trails I would have hit rocks many times with the Outlanders.
Only thing I don't like is the roll to the outside on power slides, but that can be fixed with good body english.
26" Zillas
Full Kawi Skids
Kawi Thumb / Grip Warmers
Kimpex Storage Box
2012 750 Brute EPS
#37
11-19-2011, 03:00 PM
Super Moderator
Well, golly JimBob!
Well, golly JimBob!
Sharp looking machine, 17A. I liked riding on Kawasaki's dime and spending a day on one. I can't say that about the previous Brute Force. The new one is improved in many ways and is a great choice for a quad. Don't personally care for the little yellow lever to get to full lock up front but that's a preference. They did a great job on the newest Brute.
#38
11-20-2011, 05:43 PM
Here is just a quick write up on first impressions of the machine. I'm basing this against my Outlander as it is the only machine I have had for the past four years (Four of them, all 650's). Before that I had a 2006 Brute Force 650. I have over 12,000 km's on these same trails on my Outty so I know how it performs on every section and different conditions. The trails we rode on yesterday were a mix of tight technical deep woods stuff with lots of tight cornering, rocks, logs, water and mudholes. Also plenty of higher speed logging access roads and open areas. It was damp from heavy rains all week and temp was cool.
Immediately noticed was how much lighter and sportier the Brute felt compared to the Outlander. I was pretty skeptical that the Brute Force would not be up to the high standard of the Outlander but as soon as I hit the throttle all that disappeared. Had to be careful and back off accelerating in turns that I normally accelerate through with the Outty. The engine has scary low end torque. I couldn't believe how snappy the throttle was. My 60hp Outlander would not stand a chance against the new 50Hp Brute. Had to watch cornering as the Brute did tend to Roll to the Outside way more than the Outlander. Almost flipped a couple of times doing power slides. It does handle like it is on rails, just gotta use very good body english.
As for ground clearance and handling the Brute Force won every time. I was very worried that I would be hitting rocks all day long as the numbers said that the Brute Force has 9.4 inches compared to 12 inches clearance on the Outlander. I have 26" Zillas on my Brute and 27" Zillas on my Outlander. I did not even come close to hitting any rocks / stumps with the Brute that I know I would have crunched with my Outlander. I think the Outlander squats much more when you sit on it compared to the Brute and therefore you actually have less ground clearance. I have my shocks set the same on both machines at the midway position for the shocks. The Brute has a much stiffer taller felling to it compared to the Outlander. I am usually very concerned about smashing rocks with the Outlander, but after a short bit of seat time on the Brute I realised it would not be a concern any more. I would say that unless you are riding in extreme terrain don't even bother putting on skid plates cause you won't need them. The stock cover will do just fine. Even though the ride is stiffer than the Outlander it is still very comfortable.
Low fuel light began blinking at 70km's and I let it go until the engine began to sputter at exactly 100km's. Not great fuel economy but not too bad either.
I really like all the storage compartments on the Brute Force. Don't have anything on the Outlander if you put on a box on the rear racks cause it will cover it up. The small new storage on the front is great. Good spot to put a couple of water bottles though.
Still lots of high whining tranny noise that I think makes a nice sound. It was very smooth and felt well connected all the time with the engine speeds.
The power steering was at par with the Outty. Worked very well deep in the woods on technical areas and did not feel loose at high speeds. The great thing compared to the Outty is that you do not have to f&^K around changing settings like you do on the Outlander with a Min / Max button depending on conditions.
The plastics protect very well. After 100 + km's of muddy trails I was still pretty clean. Didn't even have to change the pants for the ride home in the Truck. Even with the Zillas the tires do not stick outside of the fenders. On my Outlander XT-P that has extended fender flares the Zillas still are a bit outside the plastics so you get more mud on you.
Here are a few more things I like about the Brute compared to the Outlander.
Cleaning
The Brute is much easier to clean than an Outlander. Way more space to get at the entire front end, A-Arms etc. The new Outlanders have an enclosed front end. Can't even get a hose in there to flush out the rad as it is entirely covered by a bulkhead. The stock A-Arm protectors are a breeze to clean out front and rear. The plastics are more round and smoother than an Outlander and not as many places to trap mud. As I said before i don't like all the wires and connectors under the seat getting wet and muddy on the Brute. On an Outlander all electrical connections are much better protected than a Brute. Adjusting the rear shocks is a bit of a pain though as you have to raise the rear end off the ground to ease the springs.
Brakes
I like having a front and rear brake on the Brute vice the single brake lever controlling both on an Outlander. Also the Brakes on the Brute are quiet....on an Outlander the stock brakes make this horrible grinding sound and they wear very fast. Not uncommon to have to replace stock pads on an Outlander after only a few hundred Km's. The rear Brake on my Brute does feel a little spongy though.
Shifting
The Brute is smooth as silk and clicks into gear fast and easy. I wish there was a Park Position though like an Outlander. Anyone who has an Outlander knows how almost every time you shift it is a struggle. My friend bent his brand new 800 Max Shifting rod on the first ride this year trying to get it into gear.
Diff Lock
Outlander's have visco lock that works very well. Engages quickly with no input from the rider. I liked that system but the manual lever on the Brute doesn't bother me at all and it is another thing that makes these machines unique. I went uo a few slippery muddy hills the other day and over some logs and had no problems. Didn't even use the Diff lock.
Plastics and Looks
Really like the looks of both machines, but don't like the new Outlanders front end. They have gone to a new system by replacing the stell racks with custom plastic ones made to accept BRP attachments. I think the plastics on the Brute guard better against mud than the Outlanders.
2nd Key
Prior to 2012 if you wanted a second key for your Outlander they charged you $70.00. It has a chip in it for the BRP security system. The 2012's come with the 2nd key.
Brute Force 2nd Key = Included Free of charge
Maintenance
Air Filter is a snap to change on a Brute and replacement stock foams are only a few $$$. Prior to 2012 Outlander stock paper/foam filters cost $85.00 and were only good for one cleaning and then had to be replaced. Real pain in the *** to change also. Had to take off the front cowling, undo six snap hooks for the Air box cover that easily pop off and fall down into the engine compartment, then twist off the cover between the filter and the handlebars. Most guys switch to Twin Air or Uni Filters. On the new Outlanders it is still a paper/foam element that is very expensive but a little easier to get at.
U-joints are difficult to get at especially the front one on an Outlander. Have to remove the right front tire and grind down you grease gun fitting cause it won't fit in the joint unless you do that or use a grease needle. I hooe the Brutes stand up well. I know my 2006 650 was still good after 3000km's.
Oil changes should be a little easier on the Brute by the looks of it. No cover to remove to get at the Filter like there is on an Outlander.
Misc
- When i bought my Brute is was a breath of fresh air not having to deal with a company surrounded by all the hype as BRP is.
- Seems like accessories are a little cheaper than BRP parts
- The best thing about a Brute Force is owning one..
These new Brutes are awesome. Feels way more sportier than an Outlander and the snap on the engine is instant and extremely powerful....scary fast.
Immediately noticed was how much lighter and sportier the Brute felt compared to the Outlander. I was pretty skeptical that the Brute Force would not be up to the high standard of the Outlander but as soon as I hit the throttle all that disappeared. Had to be careful and back off accelerating in turns that I normally accelerate through with the Outty. The engine has scary low end torque. I couldn't believe how snappy the throttle was. My 60hp Outlander would not stand a chance against the new 50Hp Brute. Had to watch cornering as the Brute did tend to Roll to the Outside way more than the Outlander. Almost flipped a couple of times doing power slides. It does handle like it is on rails, just gotta use very good body english.
As for ground clearance and handling the Brute Force won every time. I was very worried that I would be hitting rocks all day long as the numbers said that the Brute Force has 9.4 inches compared to 12 inches clearance on the Outlander. I have 26" Zillas on my Brute and 27" Zillas on my Outlander. I did not even come close to hitting any rocks / stumps with the Brute that I know I would have crunched with my Outlander. I think the Outlander squats much more when you sit on it compared to the Brute and therefore you actually have less ground clearance. I have my shocks set the same on both machines at the midway position for the shocks. The Brute has a much stiffer taller felling to it compared to the Outlander. I am usually very concerned about smashing rocks with the Outlander, but after a short bit of seat time on the Brute I realised it would not be a concern any more. I would say that unless you are riding in extreme terrain don't even bother putting on skid plates cause you won't need them. The stock cover will do just fine. Even though the ride is stiffer than the Outlander it is still very comfortable.
Low fuel light began blinking at 70km's and I let it go until the engine began to sputter at exactly 100km's. Not great fuel economy but not too bad either.
I really like all the storage compartments on the Brute Force. Don't have anything on the Outlander if you put on a box on the rear racks cause it will cover it up. The small new storage on the front is great. Good spot to put a couple of water bottles though.
Still lots of high whining tranny noise that I think makes a nice sound. It was very smooth and felt well connected all the time with the engine speeds.
The power steering was at par with the Outty. Worked very well deep in the woods on technical areas and did not feel loose at high speeds. The great thing compared to the Outty is that you do not have to f&^K around changing settings like you do on the Outlander with a Min / Max button depending on conditions.
The plastics protect very well. After 100 + km's of muddy trails I was still pretty clean. Didn't even have to change the pants for the ride home in the Truck. Even with the Zillas the tires do not stick outside of the fenders. On my Outlander XT-P that has extended fender flares the Zillas still are a bit outside the plastics so you get more mud on you.
Here are a few more things I like about the Brute compared to the Outlander.
Cleaning
The Brute is much easier to clean than an Outlander. Way more space to get at the entire front end, A-Arms etc. The new Outlanders have an enclosed front end. Can't even get a hose in there to flush out the rad as it is entirely covered by a bulkhead. The stock A-Arm protectors are a breeze to clean out front and rear. The plastics are more round and smoother than an Outlander and not as many places to trap mud. As I said before i don't like all the wires and connectors under the seat getting wet and muddy on the Brute. On an Outlander all electrical connections are much better protected than a Brute. Adjusting the rear shocks is a bit of a pain though as you have to raise the rear end off the ground to ease the springs.
Brakes
I like having a front and rear brake on the Brute vice the single brake lever controlling both on an Outlander. Also the Brakes on the Brute are quiet....on an Outlander the stock brakes make this horrible grinding sound and they wear very fast. Not uncommon to have to replace stock pads on an Outlander after only a few hundred Km's. The rear Brake on my Brute does feel a little spongy though.
Shifting
The Brute is smooth as silk and clicks into gear fast and easy. I wish there was a Park Position though like an Outlander. Anyone who has an Outlander knows how almost every time you shift it is a struggle. My friend bent his brand new 800 Max Shifting rod on the first ride this year trying to get it into gear.
Diff Lock
Outlander's have visco lock that works very well. Engages quickly with no input from the rider. I liked that system but the manual lever on the Brute doesn't bother me at all and it is another thing that makes these machines unique. I went uo a few slippery muddy hills the other day and over some logs and had no problems. Didn't even use the Diff lock.
Plastics and Looks
Really like the looks of both machines, but don't like the new Outlanders front end. They have gone to a new system by replacing the stell racks with custom plastic ones made to accept BRP attachments. I think the plastics on the Brute guard better against mud than the Outlanders.
2nd Key
Prior to 2012 if you wanted a second key for your Outlander they charged you $70.00. It has a chip in it for the BRP security system. The 2012's come with the 2nd key.
Brute Force 2nd Key = Included Free of charge
Maintenance
Air Filter is a snap to change on a Brute and replacement stock foams are only a few $$$. Prior to 2012 Outlander stock paper/foam filters cost $85.00 and were only good for one cleaning and then had to be replaced. Real pain in the *** to change also. Had to take off the front cowling, undo six snap hooks for the Air box cover that easily pop off and fall down into the engine compartment, then twist off the cover between the filter and the handlebars. Most guys switch to Twin Air or Uni Filters. On the new Outlanders it is still a paper/foam element that is very expensive but a little easier to get at.
U-joints are difficult to get at especially the front one on an Outlander. Have to remove the right front tire and grind down you grease gun fitting cause it won't fit in the joint unless you do that or use a grease needle. I hooe the Brutes stand up well. I know my 2006 650 was still good after 3000km's.
Oil changes should be a little easier on the Brute by the looks of it. No cover to remove to get at the Filter like there is on an Outlander.
Misc
- When i bought my Brute is was a breath of fresh air not having to deal with a company surrounded by all the hype as BRP is.
- Seems like accessories are a little cheaper than BRP parts
- The best thing about a Brute Force is owning one..
These new Brutes are awesome. Feels way more sportier than an Outlander and the snap on the engine is instant and extremely powerful....scary fast.
#40
11-21-2011, 02:10 PM
