WOW WhoDatInDaMud,

It sounds like you are venting again.....

Do I support a 4 year old on a Pred-90? Personally No! Do I support a 5 year old on a Viper 90 and put that kid into high speed racing? No! A few of my buddies on this forum do have their 5 year old on 90's and they are into racing. Do I lecture them about it? No! Do I lecture them if they give their car keys to their kid? No! Do I lecture them if they give their 5 year old kid a beer? No! I can't control what they "do or don't do" with their kid. I'm NOT their kid's parent and never pretend to be. Just suggesting to juiceman that a warranty does NOT matter on the kid's age. The warranty is on the quad. If the quad's ownership is under juiceman's sir name, then legally he's the driver. If juiceman does mention that his 4 year old is driving a Pred-50, he will get a very long "emotional" lecture. As seen in your post...

Perhaps you read too much into my previous post, and have accidently over inflated it?
You usually don't reply with this much negative emotion.... Perhaps you are having a rough day again?

PS. WOW! I'd hate to see your reply if juiceman stated his 4 year old was driving a Pred-90.

.

 

Spike - Don't confuse venting with intervention.

I am not a child development expert. But - it isn't very difficult to find information regarding this subject.

I just spent the afternoon recently with a 4 year old boy who's dad was killed in a car accident. Dad was in my mens group at church last year and was a good man. It is a blessing that the boy didn't appear very upset as his concept of what has happened seemed to be beyond him. He just wanted to play with his toys and throw the stick for our dog to retrieve. The dog loved it. His mother is a total wreck. I was glad to help. Ryan - 4 years old - was a real treat to be around.

Back to the subject -

According to generally accepted child development standards –

4 year olds have these basic challenges:

Generally may not be quite ready to make the leap to start pre-school as they struggle to focus on instruction, direction, and order.

A 4 year olds developing confidence has a downside as they become boastful and show off by misbehaving intentionally -- especially while in the presence of peers. If you correct him he may rebel and misbehave out of defiance when out of sight of supervision.

4 years olds love to tell tall tales and lie to get out of trouble or simply to get their way.

Do not have forecasting skills for decision making or a moral sense of right and wrong.

There is still a tendency to focus attention on one thing at a time while ignoring other things going on around him.

Concepts formed are crude. Perceptions dominate judgment.

the child is not able to show principles underlying best behavior.

Rules of a game do not develop, they often only follows simple do's and don'ts imposed by authority and soon forgotten.


I can see some of these things in some adults -

But from this - I can see why power toys are outside of the developmental abilities of a 4 year old.

Raptor - Once again I agree with you. My kids - when 12 years old, started driving ATV and so far none have been in a auto accident or damaged their cars. They had a go-kart when they were 9. note: not 4!

I started driving cars at 11 on the country airport where dad kept his airplane. I also flew dads airplane when no one was around to stop me, had biblical knowledge of the glider pilots daughters and would sneak beer out of the tapper in the hanger. Getting away with doing the wrong things does not make them right.

I keep working to improve ATV oppertunities for youth. I have a dinner invitation with one State Senator up coming where she is looking for suggestions to reduce the number of children being taken to the hospitals due to atv accidents. At this point - with my new found information - I can only think of asking for a state program to put up bill boards asking parents to quit acting like 4 year olds.

 

WhoDat, your post makes me want to pull out my old Judas Priest cassette!

"Breakin' the Law! Breakin' the Law!"



Might get me a leather jacket and confederate flag while I'm at it! He!He! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

WhoDat, I had the same reaction when I saw that Juiceman's 4 year old was riding a powered vehicle. It wasn't in my place to say anything, so I didn't. Also, Spike's comments on the matter were in the interests of getting the quad fixed under warranty and he did a good job about not butting in Juiceman's job as a father.

Everything you said about child development at that age is so true. I strongly believe that a 4-10 year old should not be riding something that could kill him/her. However, we should give Juiceman the benifit of the doubt. He might have that thing throttled down were it goes no faster than a self propelled push mower or one of those Barbie electric kids cars. Even then he might provide 100% supervision.

 

Do not confuse putting your head into the sand and ignoring a problem vs. speaking up to discover if you really are allowing the benefit of doubt. One takes courage, the other is lacking in it.

Yes, juiceman might be doing everything right - but the child’s age is still wrong. The federal guidelines say 6 years old - minimum. There is likely many issues and arguable points to that 6 year old requirement ( 10 in mass.) but the bottom line is 4 years old is to young. I see it as about as bad as holding your child by the ankles over the edge of a balcony. Is it wrong if the child doesn't get droppped?

They will find a way to get unsupervised access to power toys. – Who wouldn’t’

Barbie’s corvette does not have a 400 degree exhaust pipe and does not weigh 185 pounds.

One of my neighbors has a 6 year old on a 50cc quad and so does his neighbor. None of those quads when throttled up enough to move in the grass/sand wont do a good jogging speed when on a straight run.

I also believe that its up to all of us to begin policing the sport for appropriate use of these machines if the sport is going to continue without more laws and restriction. It wasn't that long ago the federal government banned 3 wheelers because of the extraordinary number of injury accidents. I believe its coming again.

Some of the posters in this forum are a proponent of under age and illegal operation of ATV’s because they have chosen that path for themselves and their children .It makes them feel better about putting their children at risk if other people also ignore the rules.It’s a form of mob rule behavior that lets them believe that what they are doing is ok if others are doing it also so they proselytize to do the same.

Spiker didn’t want juiceman to tell the dealer he had a 4 year old on the atv to avoid being told that its not only illegal – but inappropriate, wrong and not welcomed decision making.

I personally know a dealer who won’t sell you a part for the quad if he knows your putting underage kids on it.
He’s helping to correct the underage use of ATV’s by over stimulated parents who will trade their entertainment for their child’s safety.

There are a few basic things I’ve learned in life.One is that you cannot keep doing the same thing over and over – and expect different results. Children are being killed and deformed and scarred and crippled by these mini machines.

How long will Jr. be interested in a 3mph ride around the back yard? By 5 he will be doing 30 and by 6 maybe 45 and I’ll bet he has zero supervision.

Parents need to choose wisely when and where you want to start the process as its very difficult to stop the progression.

 

WhoDat, I have my child on a quad with a larger than recommended engine. And I have encouraged others to do the same. Not because I want people’s approval (got a good laugh out of that). I’m simply trying to share my experiences. We’ve already discussed my state’s laws and I’m not breaking any as long as I’m on private property. So truth is, people like me are only rebels in your eyes.

I could have bought a 69cc. This is true. And I would have had to sink a boat load of money into it trying to make it capable of handling my terrain. So in the end, I would have been compliant with these manufacturer recommendations but I would’ve spent more money for a quad that has approximately the same size, power and weight. Surely even you can figure that one out?

As far as the 4 year old, I admit mine was not ready at that age. But that really doesn’t mean this one’s not. Who are you to say when you’ve never even met the kid?

 

No, I'm not confused. Juiceman has 4 total post and all of them made on this thread. He obviously registered to ask about the problem he was having and not to argue about his parenting skills. Hell, he might let his 4 year old run full throttle around the streets. If he said that, I would have ripped him a new one! The fact is nobody knows and we probably will never know since he probably won't come back after getting chewed out.

What's more dangerous?

A 12 year old boy that has shot a gun since he was 4 under strict supervision of his father or a 30 year old man that's never laid a hand on one?
A 12 year old boy that has been riding his 50cc since he was 4 under strict supervision and speed limiting or a 30 year old man stuck on a 660cc that's never riden one before?

My point is, ignorance is the biggest killer of them all. I think our children need instruction and supervision from an early age so that they can make proper decisions based off experience. I'm not saying stick a 4 year old on a atv and let them find out what it is to wreck. I'm just saying that if you stuck your kid in full riding gear, throttled the thing down to jogging speed, had your finger on a kill switch, and let them ride around the front lawn that you would be doing you kid a big favor when they turned 12 and was ready for a 70-90cc.

 

How much do i owe you guys for the coaching and counseling session?? I personally have taken offense to the comments i have read!! Who gives you the right to question my parenting!!! You don't know me or my son!! We ride together as a family, we have full protective gear ,with full adult supervision , riding only in a wide open field!! I'm new to this atv forum, just looking for a way to fix my son's quad, and now I have to listen to this!!! Give me a break!! you can't be serious!! I grew up riding dirtbikes, snowmobiles,and (call the police) I own a Honda big red 3 whlr!! It sounds to me like you are in the wrong forum!! This is for atv's, not preachers!!

 

Ya I don't blame you for being pissed from some of the insults thrown out. Like I said previously, nobody knows if you let you son ride full throttle down the street, barefooted, with a baseball cap for a helmet or if you strictly supervised 100% of his riding. It was never anybody's right to make assumptions and was never the topic on this thread. It's like Raptor said... nobody knows your kid better than you do.

Anyways, enough of that. Did you get that Polaris fixed?

 

you guys who are giving this guy a hard time are a bunch of douche bags. Why dont you make a trip up here and see how well my 4 year old brother does on his lt80. Then when your done with that you can watch my 5 year old brother jump his modded predator 90. Im sorry that you happened to raised uncoordinated children who probably had problems learning to crawl. Those of us with 5 year old family members who dont drool and spit up on themselves anymore are going to let them have a little fun.