Whodat, I don't know if you posted the fit requirements before but I do have 1 question about them. Is there anything to help out kids under the age of 12? I have a 10 year old that could (not that i am going to let him) meet the fit requirement on a Raptor. I, like others have found that kids are alot bigger these days. Heck, hes almost as big as me and I still don't know how that happened. A good buddy of mine also has a large son, hes 4'5" at about 150lbs and is only 6years old. He wants to get into riding but by the time he starts hes going to be a monster. Just wondered if there is any way to help out some of these up and rising Golieth's. (truthfully, a 50 is not going to pull him around!)

 

Your right about the kids getting bigger. At 10 my brothers boys are huge! Boyscouts wearing leaders XXL uniforms. Geesssh....

I don't know of any programs for the under 12 age group to ride on public property - .... other then those states without any specific age limitations. From my research on why age 12 seems to be a repeated standard I find that their is a fairly distinct change in the professional assessment of child development by age 12. Being able to divide mental attention between concurrent physical tasks and enviromental changes, having maturity to forecast future outcomes and identifying alternative choices is how I read the significances. Being able to think for themselves and choose to not do something..

I'd be interested in anyones alternative way to define a standard for youth "developement" that would establish a minimum competency for ATV safety/operator certification other than age. Most other assessments are based on cognitive or problem solving skills, language or communication skills and include social or emotional skills and motor or physical ability.
These types of metrics would need to be assessed by observation and are by nature highly subjective - lending itself to improper, bias or prejudice application.


No argument from me on the 50cc limits but I will slightly disagree with a 90cc limitation. And I speak only of my own expereinces. I rode my daughters 90cc Polaris a few times when she wasn't able (sick or hurt) or the conditions were beyond her (trail difficulty) and honestly - it was a riot. I have on several occassions thought that I wasted a lot of money on these monster quads when some of the biggest laughs came from the 90 and I could have bought several for the cost of one big quad. Yes the springs need to be more stiff for my 225 pounds but other then that - WOW! what a ride! I have ripped through places that 500cc drivers have stopped to contemplate. ( I know I'm really to big for it - dont go there)

Years ago I did some reseach into kinetic energy formulas and I was thinking of enumerating the difference between striking a tree at 20mph vs. 30mph and how the weight of the rider and quad play into the impact and potential for injury and damage - but I don't want to be accused of lecturing or soap-boxing again.

...lol.

 

I think there are alot of great comments being made here, but for me the buttom line is parents being held responsible for their choices. No matter how many of these topics i read i still see the same thing which is young kids riding huge quads coz dad thinks his kid is so much more mature than any other. I watched a 10 year old drag a yzf450 last week and the dad just kept yelling at him to go faster and telling him what he was doing wrong, I am not saying whom is right or wrong just think this is all to common and when not if but when one of these kids get seriously hurt the parent needs to be dealt with. I realize they may be upset coz their kid gets hurt but when poor decision making results in child endangerment the max needs to be given to start making parents think before they act. I also applaud parents who make sure everyone is safe when they ride. Good luck and happy safe riding.

 

yea i guess ur right, are u a damn lawyer, u are very good at debat, maybe u can help me with my debate class next year.

 

Weedman... no. not a lawyer... but well versed in getting groups of warring people to reach compromises and work together to acomplish a common goal, instead of fighting for their own agenda...

Mathew, I am not sure what the outcome of this is going to be yet. I certainly want to compile this into some form that reflects the real world situation that makes up the ATV sport as it is practiced. and hopefully present this to people who have the ability to make some changes in how the sport is perceived.

In a perfect world, we may even get someone to begin an official review of the current guidlines so they can better meet the industry's needs, and provide alternative suggestions that are positive instead of having everything decided for us. Which usually means taken away from us...

The key I feel is to be involved and let our collective voices be part of the process. A lot will depend on the kind and the number of responses that are received.

Definitely in the infancy stage right now.

 

Here is what I would like to see happen.....


I would like to see age to atv weight limitations instead of the current age to cc's.

I would like to see free voluntary rider training programs.

I would like to see safety equipment incentives from manufacturers.

I would like to see atv registrations/fees done at state and federal parks to help support riding areas. People shouldn't have to register to ride on private land.

 

Legs.. thanks for the inputs.. Just to clarify the issues, are you talking about the weight of the rider? or weight of the machine? With the weights of the machines so different depending on brand/size etc.. it would be a very hard item to police.. expecially in the field. I like MN's body measurement standards though... I think they have some merit to consider.

Also on the subject of registration. Although I didn't have this as a category, I 'll certainly include it if others think that it is a subject worth considering. My goal is to provide input to the guidelines and this falls outside their perview, as registration of vehicles is handled by the states themselves. stll, I have complained LOUDLY over the lack of consitency in this matter between the different states... and may consider this another battle worth pursuing.

Dragginbutt AKA Don Quixote

 

I'd like to send out a great big Thanks to the people who have provided input so far.. It has been very constructive and non threatening, which is a good sign... and I am glad that we are all coming together with really good inputs.... We need more though, so keep them coming. This is after all a think tank jam session...

I have a request though, does anyone have an electronic copy or a contact that I can get my hands on the actual guidelines as they pertain to ALL states? I suspect everyone is working off the same sheet of music, but I'd like to have a real copy to refer to when I compile the suggestions. I think it much more professional to direct comments to page/paragraph so there is no problem with interpretation.

I still don't know how I am going to reference the numbers of contributors.. but I think it is a very important point to reference when we get to that juncture. And suggestion there as well?

 

I would rather have the age of the rider versus weight of the machine. If you use weight versus weight, you might end up with a 6 year old husky on a 90 and a 13 year old feather weight on a 50. Not sure thats right.

I like the body measurements too, but I think you need something extra to keep youngins off those 500lb machines. I was 5'6" by 13. And I was never tall.

I don't know why manufactures couldn't put the weight of the machine with the other warning stickers. I guess my thinking is, you can't prevent people from running into objects, but you can limit the impact of the machine if it rolls back on the child. I would like to keep pre-teens to about 250lbs.

Besides I can tell a 500lb machine from a 250lb machine just by looking.

jmo. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

I'm not sure you can keep 13 year olds off 500 pound machines. I mean in principle you are right but there are 13 year olds that can handle a 300ex or even a 400ex. Regulations need to be reasonable or they will not be followed. Much like the current regulations. The reason I bought my 6 year old a 80 was a combination of 2 things. He was already big enough for an 80 and I didnt want to have to buy him another machine in 2 years. Also with the safety features on a 80 you can easily make it as slow or slower than a 50.

I want to reiterate something. A few regulations to make most kids safer is one thing. Regulations will not save everyone from every danger no matter what we do. Nor should they in my opinion. This is the land of the free. If a 15 year old has shown he has the ability to ride a 450r I see no reason to not let him. Yes, there might be some danger of a accident but no more than is reasonable.

Perspective is all I'm asking for. We allow our kids to play football (most reasonable parents do anyway) knowing there is a chance of injury and even a slim chance of death. It is a reasonable chance because we know the kids are wearing pads, a helmet and there is an adult present.