My opinion and this only my opinion and in no way should reflect towards anyone specifically......

Who may operate a motorboat?
No one under the age of 10.
Children ages 10 and 11 if accompanied in the boat by a parent or guardian or a person at least 18 years of age designated by a parent or guardian.
Children ages 12-15 if accompanied in the boat by a parent or guardian or a person at least 18 years of age designated by a parent or guardian or if in possession of a boating safety course completion certificate issued by WI DNR or another State.
Anyone 16 years of age and older.
There are no age requirements for operating a boat that is not equipped with a motor.

Who may operate a personal watercraft?
While personal watercraft (PWC) are motorboats, there are additional age restrictions on their operation:

No one under the age of 12 may operate, lease or rent a personal watercraft.
No one under the age of 16 may rent or lease a personal watercraft.
Children ages 12-15 may operate a personal watercraft if in possession of a boating safety course completion certificate issued by WI DNR or another State. Adult supervision is not a substitute for a certificate.
Anyone 16 years of age and older.

Who may operate a snowmobile?
Beginning Jan 1, 2001, any person who is born on or after 1/1/85 and who has reached the age of 12, must have completed and received a snowmobile safety certificate in order to operate a snowmobile in Wisconsin.


The regulations for ATV's are so much more relaxed

Who may operate an All-Terrain Vehicle?
Children who are at least age 12 and who are born on or after January 1, 1988 may operate and ATV on public riding areas, (trails, frozen waters, open county and forest areas, etc) if they hold a valid WI ATV safety certificate.

No one under the age of 12 may operate and ATV on a roadway under any circumstance.
Riders under age 18 must wear a helmet (motorcycle type, Snell or DOT approved) when operating on public riding areas.

Exception to Mandatory education
Children under age 12 may operate a small all-terrain vehicle on an all-terrain vehicle TRAIL designated by the Department if the child is wearing a helmet and accompanied by a parent. (Small ATV means an ATV that has 4 wheels and that has either an engine certified by the manufacturer at not more than 90 cc's or an equivalent power (Accompanied means being subject to continuous verbal direction and control ) not on the same machine.


So for boating and snowmobile prior to the age of 16 there is no exception if you don't have a safety certificate you cannot operate. Why the exception to ATV's??????? ARE they less DANGEROUS????

Mandatory Education is just that MANDATORY no EXCEPTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You Maam - can have my last beer.

 

Certainly, Wisconsin has taken steps to lay out an agressive program that does provide for riders under 12 on private property. I am not at all adverse to the training requirement either.. or the certification for that matter... however with one caveat. If a state mandates the training, then it has the moral obligation to ensure proper funding is made available to teach each and every child that requests it, and do so in a reasonable amount of time. Training coursewrok must also be consistant across the entire state... in short, they must take a programatic approach to the task. If they meet that, then it shows that they are prepared to expend the effort to work with local residents to ensure that riding is available in their state.

Unfortunately, not all states take the same approach, or would rather not deal with the issues... and find it easier to either legislate them out of existance, or totally ignore them altogether... which leads to the inconsistent manner in which the sport is being dealt with.

In the state where I currently reside, wait times for training regularly exceed 1 to 2 years. This is unacceptable. And although the statistics show that less than 4% of the dead/injured children had completed a safety course, I don't see any major push by the CPSC or the state to fix the lack of instructors. Which to me, would be number ONE priority...

As for the other issues concerning boats, PWC's etc.. again, these are Wisconsin's program/rules, and may not apply in all states.

Much of the reason this thread was started was due to others like myself believing that the current CPSC guidelines for ATV's, which are not bound by law. and which were written several years ago as a result of injury trends caused by three wheeled ATV's and their inherrent instability, AND which are being used for the basis of proposed legislation in many states and in establishing of rules for riding, DO NOT accurately reflect todays modern machines, and environment. We believe that there is room for improvement, and this thread is about gathering people's thoughts on which parts need to change, what should be added etc.

The end goal is to come up with a comprehensive suggestion to present as an alternative that can be applied across the country in a consistant manner. I do not see this as amajor deviation from what is already in place.. but there are areas where we can improve.

It is not my wish to take anyone to task here, or criticise what each person feels is right or wrong.. only to gain a general feel for what people are thinking. Your comments will add to that.. and I thank you for them. If I deviate from that premise, guys like Who dat will rein me in from time to time, so please accept my apology in advance if I stray...

Let's get one thing straight here folks, the CPSC is NOT our friend, and their goal is NOT to keep us riding the trails.... They may be providing ground rules.. but I think many question their intent... But rather than criticise and attack them... it is their sandbox right now...and we have to play by their rules ... for now

 

The differance between snowmobiles, watercraft, boats and ATV's is the size of the machines in question.

In all my years I've only seen one kids snowmobile and the thing was worthless. It went 6 or 8mph if you could get it moving because in any deep snow it would barely move. It takes alot of power to get a machine thru deep snow on skis so the sport isnt conducive to children's size machines.

Watercraft are the same way and in adition you have the swimming factor.

ATV's and motorcycles both have the advantage of theyre generally rolling over a firm surface. They can be built smaller and with smaller engines and they still work reasonably well and are generally very safe.

The vast majority of accidents are caused by irresponsible behavior. Ussually it is caused by someone either ignoring guidelines or laws. If you want to take it a step farther you usually see a lack of training. So here is the problem. You can make all the laws you want but irresponsible people will always ignore them and get in accidents. Dont ban my children, who are safely having fun on their ATV, from their activity because other parents don't do their job. It's unfair and unamerican.

If I sound annoyed it's because I am. Ignorant people trying to take away freedoms **** me off.

 

Polaris makes a 120cc youth snowmobile which I am quite sure will go faster then 8 mph. Most full size snowmobiles don't drive well in deep snow that is why we groom our trails to make then smoother.

If you want to continue to have your children drive their ATV's I am not opposed to that, they can have all the fun they want on private property until they are able to successfully complete a formal training class. The states has studies that prove that most children prior to the age of 12 do not have the mental and physical capabilities yet.


If that was a direct quote calling me ignorant I encourage you to ride along with me on a typical weekend in the summer. I am the one has to clean up what you call responsible parenting!!!!!!
If your child on a smaller machine collides with a normal size machine who do you think is going to be one that gets hurt?????? Its like a semi vs. a car. We are talking about a motorized vehicle here, which is capable of killing. These are not toys

 

The hell they aren't??? Most people ride for entertainment, not utility.

By your logic, we should ban bicycles from public roads. What happens if the bicycle gets hit by a semi truck? When was the last time you saw a semi out on the trails? Not to mention in all my 27 years of riding I have NEVER witnessed a major collision between bikes or quads. I have heard of 1 locally!

I bet my life I can train my kid better than you and WhoDat put together.

 

You clean up after responsible parenting? That makes no sense. Very few accidents are a result of responsible parenting. I've got more seat time in ATV's, motorcycles and snowmobiles than about anyone. I've ridden some combination of the 3 for the last 22 years. To say that a instructor who spends 4-6 weeks in a 'how to' class is a better teacher to my children is laughable.

As for weather young kids are able... I have no doubt that the average kid, who was raised in front of a TV, and who's only sense of responsibility comes from their poor teachers dont have the mental ability. As for the physical strength you'd be welcome to tell that to my kids after youve seen them handle their ATV just fine.

But obviously you know best since you clean up after those of us who are responsible....

 

DragginButt,

Good thread to start. I'm sure you'll get lots of good input.
I"m way to tired from shoveling, hauling, dragging, and rolling more yards of dirt that I can count today. All I can say is thank god for the Foreman. So I hope I'm not just adding on to what somebody else said, to tired to read 'em all. Will read through tomorrow night.

Lights on kids quads. There should be a front headlight and rear taillight at the very least. I'm sure we all know how well they help others to see us on the bigger quads. The kids quads are way smaller I think they would be a tremendous help for the little ones. I haven't seen one good valid reason why they don't allow them.
First thing I bought for the LT80 was a new front hood with the headlilght, in process of putting a taillight on also.

So, my vote goes for more lights.

Good Luck

 

Carmin, Rap and few others have somewhat of a distorted view on these subjects. If its not their view - its wrong...lol

Based on what Rap is saying here he doesn't have much expereince with the big-picture regarding youth and ATV's. If someone hasn't seen a serious collision in 27 years they must not be riding in conjested areas. Maybe going around the back 40 keeps things safer but around here the hospitals and emergency crews are working twice the ATV accident victims that they did just two years ago. Hospitals actually staff up for the weekend "rush" of busted up ATV'rs. Thats a fact that only an ignorant person would argue. What stands out is that nearly every state has been wrestling to deal with the increase in atv fatalities.

And Rap - the only life your really betting is your kids - not your own. You may very well be cabable of better training with more hours and hands on supervision - or maybe not...The question is - will you? But the truth is - all parents are not betting their lives - their betting thier kids.. And thats one of the major flaws in Youth ATV training and certification. We cannot insure that once they have passed the tests that the parents are going to carry the tourch to ensure the rules are followed. Personally I'm leaning towards no Youth without a drivers license being allowed to operate a ATV anywhere without direct PARENTAL supervision and licensing the PARENTS to provide that supervision. None of these mangled legs, flesh torn off arms and mashed faces is worth it. Not one.

FYI- we don't let under age 18 persons skydive. Thats because the courts have ruled that parents do not have the right to sign away their childerens safety. Ponder on how that applies here. A lot more people are killed on ATV's every year then skydiving. A lot more. (its about 30 in skydiving world-wide with over 3 million participants making over 6 million skydives)

I just returned from 3 days ATV'ing on the Iron range and I would guestimate that 80% of the riders were eiither not wearing helmets, hot-rodding at recklass speeds on busy narrow trails, carrying passengers on one up machines, or riding through the lakes and streams doing irreparable damage. These are the examples kids are learning from. And not one of the youth I was able to talk to had a safety certificate and every one of them was on a over sized quad. I didn't see a collision this weekend - but I saw some close calls - one resulting in a roll over and what might be a broken collar bone.

Rap - I don't where you ride but around here it's not all that safe. Try to keep a open mind to what others might be expereincing.

Recap -
No under 16 kids without a drivers license unless supervised by a Parent or LEGAL guardian with specific rights to allow it.
Parents must pass a ATV Certification course so they know the rules, risks, impact to the envioroement etc. to supervise a youth.
No kids under 12 on public property - period ( I do not want to take out little BillyBob Raptorlegs on a 90 cc mini quad with my 800 pound TRV)

After this weekend - thats todays suggestions. Looking back, I'd say this topic is still a moving target for me and its not getting more liberal.

Flame suit ( on )
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Glimp -

Its called sarcasm. as in - the parents who were suppose to be responsible....

Geeesh....