Youth ATV's are not alone in the safety spotlight these days. Playground equipment is undergoing federal investigations and the CPSC has established standards for everything from slides to rope ladders.

 

I read the comments from yesterday and a couple items jump out at me... first, I think everyone needs to do a reality check... The CPSC guidelines are out there, have been accepted by many states as the authority on the subject, and it has been enacted into law. The list of states that are using them as the framework for their legislation is growing every month. We are not going to stop that train...

None of us want the rules... but the reality of the situation is that we have them, and until we all become activists and do something, nothing si going to change. That is what this thread is all about. Gathering ideas on how to attack this situation and hopefully make a difference.

I don't feel any anger towards the authorities who have to enforce the laws either.. they are doing their jobs.

Some of us older folks remember a time when we didn't have all these rules and regs... and I guess we would like to return to those days.. but those days are behind us my friends.. Are we paying for others mistakes.. sure we are... Do we still have people riding without helmets even though statistically speaking, we stand a better chance of reducing the injury numbers if they did wear one. Sure we do.

The bottom line is we have to lower the injuriy and death numbers... and determine what are the causes...
1) Some of them are caused by design of the quads themselves...
2) Some are caused by kids riding on machines that are too big for them. (I know the arguement that my kid can handle this or that)
3) The lack of adequate training and being able to demonstrate a certain level of skill and ability.
4) Lack of minimum safety gear. (helmets, eye protection, boots, gloves etc.)

The biggest gains can be had by attacking the last three. Number two is the area that addresses the adult supervisory responsibility and the intelligent and informed decision categories. Number 3, is where we can really make a dent in the numbers if implemented properly and in conjunction with number two. Number 4 is just plain self explanatory.. gear reduces injuries... maybe not the numbers, but the severity.

Whodat suggested certification training for parents etc... I'd like to twist that a little and ask for your opinions on this...
Would you support a "rule" that says that children under 12 must be accompanied by a certified/trained adult over 18.. Or do you think a rule that states that children under 12 must have active supervision by an adult over 18 and leave it at that?

(Assuming that if they are caught without proper supervision, they (the child) could be cited/fined etc.)

I know there are some among us that would like to see a parent cited if their kids are caught without having the proper supervision, but let's face it, kids will be kids and will always find a way. I'd sure hate to have the parent punished for a kid's action. I think if the parent has to sit in juvenile court with the child would be punishment enough..Or should be enough of a wake up call... This does not mean that a parent should not be cited when they make decisions that endanger the child either. Like putting a 10 year old on a Banshee...

We need to provide alternatives.. any more ideas?.

 

Our current state law says a child that is 14 years or younger must be supervised by an adult.

I support that 100%.


But, on the other issue........I think some of you guys confuse training with experience. You cannot substitute one for the other. Experience takes time. Time that your training course does not offer.

Also, how many children are you allowed to have in a class? I'm just curious because all my training is one-on-one.

 

Currently, the category of experience has not been addressed in teh guidelines... so I am not sure that can be regulated or legislated. Either way, we won't be tackling that one here... although I agree that experience is necessary,a dn I suspect that there needs to be a general familiarity in the basics prior to attending a course. That doesn't mean there isn't room for something like this...maybe part of the delivery experience... I have talked at length with my local dealer, and he indicated that he would love to offer a basic hands on familiarization course for his novice riders, but indicated that there were numerous liability issues that would make that difficult to impossible for him to offer it, however, if an outsider were to do it, he would support their program in any way he could.. just not put his name on it... Fair enough... I think it would boost his sales.. so I am looking at getting my own certifications to be able to hold these classes. At least for the kids 12 and under... I don't expect to charge of get paid for doing this... sort of practicing what I preach...

 

Sounds like a plan. Education is a good thing but it is only a small part of the equation as I see it. As for the list of causes... The quads are the least of the problem. Gear would be the number one problem with kids riding machines they arent equiped to handle being second. Education would rank just above poor quad design.

As for regulation. It really strikes me as ludicris that I get labeled as unrealistic when I talk about letting people take responsibility for their actions.

My parents just got back from Ghana, Africa (they go twice a year to help build schools). They toured the slave castles there where slaves were kept till the ships came to take them to America. They asked the person they were there with if there was resentment towards white people because of slavery. The guy said, "no, not at all, because we blame ourselves". During tribal infighting they would sell their enemies to the people at these slave castles to be sent to America as slaves.

I cant imagine Americans reacting like that. We would be quick to blame the ship owners, the people in the castle and the people overseas who bought the slaves. Anything but ourselves. There would be hundreds, probably thousands of lawsuits. It's humbling when you see people living in grass huts having a much better attitude than we rich Americans.

But I guess I should give up on responsibility. It's unrealistic in America.

 

Glimp, it isn't that I disagree with you on this issue, however because I am focusing on changing the guidelines as they are today, I don't see anything that we could apply this against.

This gets into other areas of parental responsibility and possibly civil law that does not relate specifically to ATV's in general... so I can't see how to recommend it be incorporated in some form of regulation. In fact, I think I'd be one of the first that would fight not to go to this detail with any specification that results...

Don't get the wrong idea however... I am one that champions your thoughts on parental control/responsibility etc.... but this gets into other forms of law that I am not prepared to take on... Right now all I have seen in state law is a requirement for parental control for yong kids... but they do not define what they consider parental control....

 

We camped this weekend in a area were there is lots of ATV use. There is a majar trail right near the camp ground. During this weekend we were the only riders wearing full protective gear on ATVs less than 1/3 were even wearing helmets. Many fullsized quads with kids riding double no helmets etc. One pair them was riding two quads four kids all under 14 by the looks of them one helmet among the four. Made me real uncomfortable to see. There were no incidents or injuries that I am aware of but it was scary to see even if the trails there are very open and smooth. We have very few regulations here in reguards to ATV use but the State is looking at them right now and I would be surprised if we don't have regs next year. Last I heard they were modeling after Utahs regs. No child under 8 on public property and requiring a certificate for under 12 if I remember. They were discussing certificates for over 12 on larger machines. Manditory helmets for under 18 like they do for motorcycles on the street. I hate that they will put regs in place but after seeing the number of kids without helmets and in many cases adult supervision on the trail along with small kids operating fullsize polaris sportsman 500s Trailboss 330s and many other 500 pound plus machines I see were they are coming from.

 

All the reason why I am doing this... and don' get me wrong.. I am not doing this for any kind of fame and glory... I just feel that it is time to look at this.. and I guess I have to start with me... These are the kinds of people who caused the drafting of the guidlines in the first place.. and why even though I hate the fact that rules have already been put in place.. you can clearly see the need for them Some will tell you to mind your own business, but I figure I am... I am looking out for others so we can have a sport in 5 or 10 years...Before it gets taken away for reasons above...

 

I didn't make any suggestions just observations. So I will post my suggestions.
1> Manditory protective euipment, possibly manufactures could offer free or discounted gear with purchase.
(Polaris does give you a helmet and safety flag with every youth quad).
2> I support headlights and safety flags on all youth riden quads. Also increased width and wheel base on youth models to increase the stability of them. ( along with this I would like to see better suspensions 2 inchs travel is just not enough.)
3> posibly an intermediate class and sized machine for the under 16 but too big for 90cc youth.
4> some incentive for a class for new riders, to encourage people to attend and become familiar with their machines.
5> Required that riders under 16 have an adult with them on the trail not back at the camper.
6> Some process to allow kids over 12 to demonstrate ability and fit on a larger machine with a possible limitation in size so it isn't 12 year old is not on DS650 or Grizzlie 660 maybe a( 500 )and under until 16 (500 suggestion is just to allow option of 4x4 machines for over 12 but under 16).
7> Heavy fines for Adults who knowing allow violations. Citations for kids who violate.

Once again I hate the Regulations but know for a fact they are coming here soon. There have already been meetings to set up something very soon. I am angry that I will be forced through extra hoops because some are idiots. I would like to say let natural selection take it's course but that doesn't help the children of morons who need to be taught if they are not to grow up to be morons too. I would also like to see parents charged with endangering a child when they allow truely stupid things to go on.

 

DirtVH... What a wonderful opportunity for you to have your voice heard. Get a group together and show up en masse' to make your voices heard. If people like you and I don't get involved, we can't complain later when we lose it all... Idahoo has some of the most scenic areas to ride... I sure hope they allow you to remain free of the stuff those of us on teh East coast have to deal with...