This is very interesting... It seems another of our frequent poster's, Spike99 has also been the victim of said policy... I am not sure how anyone else feels, but I felt his posts were always positive and helpful when it came to solving many problems people would request information or help on... His technical solutons were second to none, and always were free for the asking...

Going to miss his technical support...

MY question is this.... What exactly is the policy that people supposedly have broken? Just so we all don't do something crazy. I mean I have on occasion posted links to pages that contain information.. not exactly sales sites... but you could probably draw the conclusion if you tried real hard.
For example, I included a link to the Blue ribbon Coalition once or twice. And an organization that provides expertise on trail building technology.. and on that site there was a link to a company that was manufacturing specialized equipment for use in trail building.. Does that make it illegal?

What if I tell someone to look at the web page of one of the advertizers on this website? I have on many occasions told someone to check out Nichols trailers.. and Racewayatv.. is that illegal?

I also heard from a friend that he had a message removed because he provided a link to a local website that provides updates on all the legislation being considered....How would that be in direct competition?

Please clarify....

 

Hey the DB,

From what I understand from the rules, and what DBECK(owner of this site) said above, you can post links and refer others to websites to buy stuff. <u>You just can't do that, or offer services, where YOU will make money from it.</u> By doing that, you are using this Forum for personal gain ($$$) and the owners of this site get nothing in return. They keep this site up by selling advertising from companies, so if somebody is "advertising" for services and making money from it, that is not fair to the owners of the site or the advertisers that are paying for it.
Jack's reply above states that he was breaking the rules.

As you say say, I to surely hope Jack and Spike do return. They are a wealth of knowledge, of which I have learned a lot. It sound like Jack and the site owners are working it out, as I would hope. I think it was great on Jacks part to post the message he did, it clears the air and we all now know what is going on.

Hope that helps a little. If not, you can talk to DBECK and I'm sure he'll answer anything else.

See Ya

 

Hey Jack,

Great post above, thanks for the information.
I know we were all wondering what was up. I'm glad, and hopeful, that you guys do work it out and you return. We look forward to your return, so get that "project" done.

 

So what you all are saying is that if I am not trying to profit from it, nor have any ties to a business that I am sending you too... it is OK.

Where it gets confusing is when a link is made... According to the rules, I thought linking to a commecial entity of any kind was a no no...

I myself am guilty of providing a link to a Yamaha parts page so a guy could get an illustration of where the air limiter was at... I gues I'll need to be more careful in the future....

No profit in mind, just trying to be helpful.

 

I don't plan on changing a thing!! I have only used these boards to get help and provide help. If I've posted links to somewhere that has used them to make money, I'm sorry. I am just trying to help. And I know for fact, I have never made a dime!!!! I am glad that these boards are here, and my thanks go out to those responsable. And thanks to those like Jack that have help greatly!! (even without me giving him a dime) And thanks to Dragginbutt, bubba, spike, and a host of others for the help and laughs!! And Dragginbutt, its not the years, its the milelage. (and I have had some very hard miles!!)


Thanks!!

 

Hah!.. I hear ya friend... I hear ya... we don't want to get into one of those conversations today... Been there, done that....

Glad to see some one "get's" me..

 

DB,

Spike99 hasn't been the victim of anything. He got in the middle of an issue we were working on with another member and he was aware he should not have been involved. We temporarily (for 2 days) disabled his access to give us time to email hm about a problem. That hardly makes him a victim of anything! If he chooses not to come back then that is his choice but we certainly didn't boot him out.

Nobody would remove a link to the BRC. We have, in fact, offered several times to donate free banner advertising for them.

There are only a very few reasons why we would remove a link or a post. If the person posting the information works for a company or owns the company and somehow stands to make a profit off of the posting then we remove the link or the post. For example, just recently we had one guy here who bought some land and turned it into a riding park. He charges people to ride there. I looked, and 9 out of 10 of his posts were linkng to information on his ride park. Seemed pretty obvious why he was posting the link, huh? The more people that ride there the more money he makes. Could you have posted a link to his park? Sure. Why? Because you're trying to help other riders. Can he post a link? No. Why? Because for him its advertising and he stands to make a profit. See the difference?

The other situation we run into is when a company has their buddy come here to post about the company. They'll often times try to have a friend post in order to get around the rules. So again...it comes down to the question of motivation. Posting to be truly helpful is a good motivation. Posting to promote a friend's business so that the friend doesn't have to buy advertising is not a good motivation. The latter would result in a deleted posting. And yes...sometimes its subjective for the moderator and hard to accurately make the distinction.

Another situation is when a business posts a link to their "personal" web site and right smack dab front and center on that personal site is an advertisement for their business. Again, this is another veiled attempt for a business to get some free advertising from us.

What is most shameful about that is that the money earned from the forums goes right back into the forums. In fact, just last night I worked all night long (until 6:00 AM) building a brand new server for the forums so that the pages load faster for you guys. I'll install the server within a week. So when a business attempts to cheat us by playing these silly little games (which never works anyway because we've seen all of the tricks) then they not only hurt us but they hurt you too because in the end we give it all back to our readers. Some of our readers realize that we're all in this together and they are very good about using the notify moderator link to let us know when soemone is misusing the forums. We appreciate that kind of help!

We also have people that sign up as a new member. We will see that they have made, say, 10 posts since they joined. We look at the 10 posts and each one of them are linking to a new forum they set up. This might not be "commercial" use of the forum. However, when you look at the person's motivation for being a member here what is it? Is that person here to talk about ATVs, share riding stories, help other people by answering questions, etc? No, they are here for one reason only. To solicit our members to go elsewhere. That is another case where we will remove posts. It has nothing to do with "competition." It has to do with ethics and principals and the fact that if they aren't here to socialize or learn then they really aren't here for the right reasons.

Some people wonder why there are "forbidden word" filters when they try to make a post. They see that another site might be a "forbidden word" and they ASSUME we put it there because we're afraid of competition. That isn't the case at all. If a site is in the "forbidden word" list it is because at some point in time they came here and spammed the forum or otherwise abused the forum. You would be surprised how many sites will post 200 or 300 PM's inviting members to their site. Obviously, when an abuse happens, we update the software to stop it and to prevent it from happening again. Contrary to popular opinion...we don't spend all day in the forums trying to monitor things. The forums is only a small part of ATV Connection and our business. So we have the software manage things as much as possible. Unfortunately, that means some other members might run into a problem hitting a "forbidden word" when they try to post on ocassion and we get blamed for it. But in reality, the original site owner is most often the person to blame because they put us in a spot of having to update the filter to begin with.


The intent of the forums is to provide a fun and informative place for people to talk and make friends and enjoy the sport when they can't be out riding. If someone is here for other reasons, such as to make sales or to somehow tap into our member base for their own benefit then that person isn't here for the right reasons. These are the posts that we focus on.


Now I don't want to imply that the forums can't be used for advertising or for new product research or other "commercial" uses. They can be used for these things but the company has to contact us beforehand and we will work with them to provide them an authorized and legitimate way to use the forums for these things. The companies that have done this have found that their increased sales make the little bit of a cost to the advertising a no brainer. It pays for itself!

If ever in doubt about something, its better to email the moderators and ask first. We are all here to help!

 

.

Cool!!!! I can now login. Thanks everyone.

Also, I was able to update my profile with my new email id. Probably explains why I didn't get details into "my active email id" explaining why my Spike99 account was zapped. And, I've learned a lot about the many filters & watching eyes this forum has in their PM system as well. I learned a lot more then expected during the last few days. Definately something I will remember in future posts.


dbeck: Thanks for your long post. After reading your "where the boundary is on this forum" explanation, I now understand why you had to zap my id. If I was in your shoes, I'd probably do the same to my own account as well. My appologies for not knowing where the boundary is. Yes, I did over step the boundry on this forum because of my friend. A personal weakness I will keep a very close eye on in future posts...


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Just for the record, I'm not into sales, don't make financial commissions and don't receive any financial kick-backs on any products / services that I point to. Although, I can count more then a dozen times how often I suggested folks visit their local K-Mart / WalMart store for items. I knew I should have bought shares in that company. LOL!!!! On the more serious side, I'm just a low income mini-quad parent who's trying to find different ways to implement inexpensive solutions on our '03 Pred-90. And in return, I share these ideas with others. This will allow the other mini-quad parents to spend more time with their family - instead of pulling their own hair out doing R&D inside their own garage. Good for this forum, good for the readers and good for the folks doing R&D type inquires. Win-win for many on this forum....

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Good to have you back spike99, I enjoyed reading your posts. MWQ

 

I have been thinking a great deal over what has been said here... and one thing that strikes me, is the relationships that have developed over the past months that I have personally been part of. Via this forum and media, I have established a repore' with persons in Canada, Washington state, Alaska, Mn, and yes, even Texas. We have managed to discuss our differences in opinion in a sometimes friendly, sometimes heated manner.. and yet, I think there is a bond that goes way beyond just an email here and there.

In short, we care and come to the defense of those that we hold special.. no matter that I have never had the opportunity to shake your hands in person... look you in the eye and say welcome friend. The feeling is there.

This is what the outcome of this forum is all about... This is what it was designed for.. and why the owner and moderators put in the hours they do to make it all possible. For that I think we all owe the staff here a great debt of gratitude....

I welcome everyone back into the "light".. and wish all success.....

Now please pass the gravy...

DB