HELP 2009 Gio 125 ATV NO START
#11
01-22-2011, 02:25 PM
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#12
01-22-2011, 07:01 PM
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Hi Eddy, sounds like the problem I had as you say. What I had to do is get the wiring diagram and find some specs for voltages and resistances that should be at each component, especially the CDI and the three coils in the stator. You have to study and understand the wiring diagram totally and any ohms tests or voltage that each wire is supposed to read. It's frustrating and time consuming but it's what you need to do. Sounds like you may have a wiring issue like broken wire, corroded connector etc. Like I say, study the wiring diagram and have at it with an ohm meter. Just replacing components does no good if your not getting the right voltage to EVERY component in the ignition system. I'll say it once again, Think, and understand the wiring diagram completely and start doing tests.
Kel
Kel
#14
01-23-2011, 10:28 PM
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I know nothing about Arctic Cat quads and I have zero experience on 2 stroke mechanical problems. So I won't be any help on problems specific to those two issues.
I notice in your list of parts that have been swapped out that the spark plug isn't in the list. Have you tried changing the spark plug? It takes roughly twice the voltage the jump the plug gap under compression than in free air. It is possible that the spark can jump the gap outside the engine (in free air), but inside under compression the easiest path the ground is through a crack in the insulator.
So if you have an old plug sitting around you could try the spark test with the plug gap doubled. If it jumps that gap while cranking then it points away from a weak spark issue. It does not exhonorate a bad plug though.
Another requirement for starting (besides spark, fuel, compression) is that the spark arrives at the right time. A lot of quads have an access plug over the flywheel where you can shine a timing light down the hole to check ignition timing. The timing is not adjustable, but it can be erratic with a bad CDI (but youv'e changed this with a known good one), or wroung if the flywheel woodruff key is sheared.
I notice in your list of parts that have been swapped out that the spark plug isn't in the list. Have you tried changing the spark plug? It takes roughly twice the voltage the jump the plug gap under compression than in free air. It is possible that the spark can jump the gap outside the engine (in free air), but inside under compression the easiest path the ground is through a crack in the insulator.
So if you have an old plug sitting around you could try the spark test with the plug gap doubled. If it jumps that gap while cranking then it points away from a weak spark issue. It does not exhonorate a bad plug though.
Another requirement for starting (besides spark, fuel, compression) is that the spark arrives at the right time. A lot of quads have an access plug over the flywheel where you can shine a timing light down the hole to check ignition timing. The timing is not adjustable, but it can be erratic with a bad CDI (but youv'e changed this with a known good one), or wroung if the flywheel woodruff key is sheared.
Thread ressurection!
I thought I was on to something, but no luck. My son's quad exhibits the same symtoms are kelpaso's.
I have 2 2003 Arctic Cat Y-12 2 stroke 90s. One will not start; turned it off one night, the next morning it fired off and then died. The unit has not started in 2 weeks and I have labored with it day and night. Tried the CDI, coil, ignition switch, and regulator off running Cat to no avail. Tried a new stator with no luck. I checked the compression and it was a little low(even though it was same as running Cat) so I rebuilt the top end with a new piston, rings, and jug. The unit will not start; it does have spark but I thought like kelpaso that maybe it wasn't hot enough once installed in the head. I started trying to track down any wiring issues and have spent most of today rewiring the ground wires in the main harness because I found some burned spots the previous owner had attempted repair. It had had a pretty good melt down of the ground wires.
Got that all cleaned up and it still will not start. I also swapped the switch on the bars to check the cutoff switch; it is good.
The unit turns over good but exhibits no sign of trying to fire off; plug is wet after each attempt to start. Oh and I have had the carb apart several times. Carb is good and clean, new fuel filter. Needle and seat good; adjusted the float level to shut off quicker. Also inspected the reed cage and reed valves looked good.
I got no more ideas!
Read my brains out this am- you guys have made some awesome posts, hope you can help.
Thanks
Eddy
I thought I was on to something, but no luck. My son's quad exhibits the same symtoms are kelpaso's.
I have 2 2003 Arctic Cat Y-12 2 stroke 90s. One will not start; turned it off one night, the next morning it fired off and then died. The unit has not started in 2 weeks and I have labored with it day and night. Tried the CDI, coil, ignition switch, and regulator off running Cat to no avail. Tried a new stator with no luck. I checked the compression and it was a little low(even though it was same as running Cat) so I rebuilt the top end with a new piston, rings, and jug. The unit will not start; it does have spark but I thought like kelpaso that maybe it wasn't hot enough once installed in the head. I started trying to track down any wiring issues and have spent most of today rewiring the ground wires in the main harness because I found some burned spots the previous owner had attempted repair. It had had a pretty good melt down of the ground wires.
Got that all cleaned up and it still will not start. I also swapped the switch on the bars to check the cutoff switch; it is good.
The unit turns over good but exhibits no sign of trying to fire off; plug is wet after each attempt to start. Oh and I have had the carb apart several times. Carb is good and clean, new fuel filter. Needle and seat good; adjusted the float level to shut off quicker. Also inspected the reed cage and reed valves looked good.
I got no more ideas!
Read my brains out this am- you guys have made some awesome posts, hope you can help.Thanks
Eddy
#15
01-24-2011, 08:24 AM
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Lynn,
I have indeed changed the plug, in fact I have tried 2 new plugs as well as others reserved from routine maintenance; No positive result from the change. I have removed plug from non running quad and installed in running unit and plug worked fine.
Today I decided to go back and check the replacement stator, something that should have already been addressed. Values as follows;
Actual Readings: Values from Arctic Cat Service Manual:
Winding 1: 0.8 ohms / 1.6vac 0.5-0.7 ohms / 7.4-11.2v
Winding 2: 501 ohms / .59vac 93.6-140.4 ohms / 2.4-3.6v
Winding 3: 347 ohms / 34.2vac 442.6-668.4 ohms / 148-222v
I wish I understood the meaning of these values but I do not. The AC service manual says to measure the voltages using DCV settings, but I thought these were to be measured AC.
Thanks for your help. Should I reinstall old stator and measure values? I think I will go measure values on running Cat.
Eddy
I have indeed changed the plug, in fact I have tried 2 new plugs as well as others reserved from routine maintenance; No positive result from the change. I have removed plug from non running quad and installed in running unit and plug worked fine.
Today I decided to go back and check the replacement stator, something that should have already been addressed. Values as follows;
Actual Readings: Values from Arctic Cat Service Manual:
Winding 1: 0.8 ohms / 1.6vac 0.5-0.7 ohms / 7.4-11.2v
Winding 2: 501 ohms / .59vac 93.6-140.4 ohms / 2.4-3.6v
Winding 3: 347 ohms / 34.2vac 442.6-668.4 ohms / 148-222v
I wish I understood the meaning of these values but I do not. The AC service manual says to measure the voltages using DCV settings, but I thought these were to be measured AC.
Thanks for your help. Should I reinstall old stator and measure values? I think I will go measure values on running Cat.
Eddy
#17
01-24-2011, 01:14 PM
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#18
01-24-2011, 03:24 PM
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#19
01-24-2011, 08:08 PM
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At first I was going to say that electrical stuff probably isn't your problem as long as you get spark to jump across an enlarged gap outside the engine, and the spark is happening at the right time.
But after looking at the resistance value differences between the two stators there is something definately wrong. I'm suspecting you have the wrong stator installed now. I would put the other one back in then measure trigger voltages to the CDI and the AC ignition power voltage to the CDI. Maybe your old stator is OK. Why did you change it? The only thing I saw out of spec was the 0.4 ohm winding versus the 0.5 ohm winding. This difference could just be your meter calibration. Plus this winding is the battery charge winding, which on AC powered CDIs doesn't have anything to do with ignition and whether the quad will run.
But remember, I don't know anything about arctic cats. I did look using google for 2 stroke 90cc CDIs. I got several different looking CDI's popping up. Different CDIs imply different stators. There's also a lot of you tube videos on stator testing for 2 stroke arctic cat snowmobiles. I don't if they use the same engine on quads. One thing that surprised me is that some use two AC ignition power windings. On is for low speeds, and one is for high speeds. Strange.
On your stator you measured three windings. Are these all inside the flywheel, or is one of them the trigger pickup coil mounted outside the flywheel?
But after looking at the resistance value differences between the two stators there is something definately wrong. I'm suspecting you have the wrong stator installed now. I would put the other one back in then measure trigger voltages to the CDI and the AC ignition power voltage to the CDI. Maybe your old stator is OK. Why did you change it? The only thing I saw out of spec was the 0.4 ohm winding versus the 0.5 ohm winding. This difference could just be your meter calibration. Plus this winding is the battery charge winding, which on AC powered CDIs doesn't have anything to do with ignition and whether the quad will run.
But remember, I don't know anything about arctic cats. I did look using google for 2 stroke 90cc CDIs. I got several different looking CDI's popping up. Different CDIs imply different stators. There's also a lot of you tube videos on stator testing for 2 stroke arctic cat snowmobiles. I don't if they use the same engine on quads. One thing that surprised me is that some use two AC ignition power windings. On is for low speeds, and one is for high speeds. Strange.
On your stator you measured three windings. Are these all inside the flywheel, or is one of them the trigger pickup coil mounted outside the flywheel?
#20
01-25-2011, 05:25 AM
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Lynn,
The values I measured were as follows:
Winding 1: Battery Charge Winding (Yellow/Red Stripe)
Winding 2: Trigger Pulse (White/Red Stripe)
Winding 3: AC Ignition Power (Black/Red Stripe)
On the original stator, initial testing of the trigger pulse measured 110 ohms, and the AC Ignition winding measured 0 ohms. I don't remember the battery charge winding as I didn't write it down; that is what I based my diagnosis of bad stator on. At the time I did not have a factory service manual so I based my readings on some values I found in this forum.
I think you are correct in that the replacement stator is the wrong part. I ordered aftermarket to try and save money but I've lost. Yesterday I ordered a stator from the dealer and it turns out there was no real savings anyway. I should have a new stator by Wednesday pm.
Thanks,
Eddy
The values I measured were as follows:
Winding 1: Battery Charge Winding (Yellow/Red Stripe)
Winding 2: Trigger Pulse (White/Red Stripe)
Winding 3: AC Ignition Power (Black/Red Stripe)
On the original stator, initial testing of the trigger pulse measured 110 ohms, and the AC Ignition winding measured 0 ohms. I don't remember the battery charge winding as I didn't write it down; that is what I based my diagnosis of bad stator on. At the time I did not have a factory service manual so I based my readings on some values I found in this forum.
I think you are correct in that the replacement stator is the wrong part. I ordered aftermarket to try and save money but I've lost. Yesterday I ordered a stator from the dealer and it turns out there was no real savings anyway. I should have a new stator by Wednesday pm.
Thanks,
Eddy