intermittent spark Kazuma 110 (2006)
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07-23-2011, 03:46 PM
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Thanks, Dave
#2
07-23-2011, 04:01 PM
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Is your CDI a four pin CDI or a five pin?
Assuming you have the more common 5 pin, here is the generic procedure fro troubleshooting ignition system troubles. If you have a four pin CDI we will need to use a different procedure. Since your problem is intermittent you need to be sure to make the tests during the time when it is not working (i.e. no spark). Otherwise you just be proving that everything works.
Assuming you have the more common 5 pin, here is the generic procedure fro troubleshooting ignition system troubles. If you have a four pin CDI we will need to use a different procedure. Since your problem is intermittent you need to be sure to make the tests during the time when it is not working (i.e. no spark). Otherwise you just be proving that everything works.
Is this a picture of your CDI?
Assuming the answer is yes, the first thing to do is eliminate all kill switches abd kill switch wiring:
Method 1) Unplug the CDI and remove the kill switch pin in the CDI connector on the wiring harness. The pin is held in with a spring tab on the pin itself. You'll have to probe into the connector and push this tab in order to extract the pin. Plug the CDI back in (kill switch wire dangling) and see if you have spark.
Method 2) Unplug the CDI. Turn on the ignition switch and set all kill switches to the run position. Use a meter to measure resistance in of the kill switch pin in the wiring harness connector to engine/frame ground. If the reistance is infinite on the 100K ohm scale then your kill switches/kill switch wiring are OK. If you measure zero ohms then you have a kill switch/wiring issue.
The other inputs your CDI needs to make spark are AC Ignition Power, and the Trigger signal. Do the following:
1) Unplug the CDI. In the wiring connector measure the resistance of the AC Ignition Power pin to the Ground pin. You should see 400 ohms or so. What do you measure?
2) Measure the resistance of the Timing/trigger pin to the ground pin. You should measure 150 ohms or so. What do you measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 100 volt scale. Measure the voltage on the AC Ignition Power pin to the ground pin while cranking the engine. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC while the engine is cranking. What do you measure?
4) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale you have. Ideally this would be 2 volts but many meters don't go down this low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. Measure the voltage on the Timing Trigger pin to the Ground pin while cranking the engine. You should 0.2 t0 0.4 volts AC. What do you measure?
Now for measuring the output side of the CDI:
A) Leave the CDI unplugged. In the CDI wiring connector measure the resistance of the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin. You should measure less than 1 ohm (but not zero ohms). What do you measure?
B) Plug the CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt scale. Set all kill switches to the run position. Crank the engine while measuring the voltage on the Igntition Coil pin to ground. Poke through the insulation of the wire if you can't probe the connector.
Caution: There should be moderately high voltage spikes on this wire. Make sure your fingers are not part of the circuitry. Don't touch the probe lead tips while doing this test.
What you should see is a lot of random numbers with lots of zero values as well. This is because the meter may catch all or part of the spark event voltage, with a lot of nothing in between. Describe what you see.
Note: Using a meter to measure this point produces highly variable results depending on the meter. What you really need is an oscilloscope, but most always a meter is all that is available. We have to do the best we can with what's available. Describe the meter results as accurately as you can - there is information there to chew on....
Assuming the answer is yes, the first thing to do is eliminate all kill switches abd kill switch wiring:
Method 1) Unplug the CDI and remove the kill switch pin in the CDI connector on the wiring harness. The pin is held in with a spring tab on the pin itself. You'll have to probe into the connector and push this tab in order to extract the pin. Plug the CDI back in (kill switch wire dangling) and see if you have spark.
Method 2) Unplug the CDI. Turn on the ignition switch and set all kill switches to the run position. Use a meter to measure resistance in of the kill switch pin in the wiring harness connector to engine/frame ground. If the reistance is infinite on the 100K ohm scale then your kill switches/kill switch wiring are OK. If you measure zero ohms then you have a kill switch/wiring issue.
The other inputs your CDI needs to make spark are AC Ignition Power, and the Trigger signal. Do the following:
1) Unplug the CDI. In the wiring connector measure the resistance of the AC Ignition Power pin to the Ground pin. You should see 400 ohms or so. What do you measure?
2) Measure the resistance of the Timing/trigger pin to the ground pin. You should measure 150 ohms or so. What do you measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 100 volt scale. Measure the voltage on the AC Ignition Power pin to the ground pin while cranking the engine. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC while the engine is cranking. What do you measure?
4) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale you have. Ideally this would be 2 volts but many meters don't go down this low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. Measure the voltage on the Timing Trigger pin to the Ground pin while cranking the engine. You should 0.2 t0 0.4 volts AC. What do you measure?
Now for measuring the output side of the CDI:
A) Leave the CDI unplugged. In the CDI wiring connector measure the resistance of the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin. You should measure less than 1 ohm (but not zero ohms). What do you measure?
B) Plug the CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt scale. Set all kill switches to the run position. Crank the engine while measuring the voltage on the Igntition Coil pin to ground. Poke through the insulation of the wire if you can't probe the connector.
Caution: There should be moderately high voltage spikes on this wire. Make sure your fingers are not part of the circuitry. Don't touch the probe lead tips while doing this test.
What you should see is a lot of random numbers with lots of zero values as well. This is because the meter may catch all or part of the spark event voltage, with a lot of nothing in between. Describe what you see.
Note: Using a meter to measure this point produces highly variable results depending on the meter. What you really need is an oscilloscope, but most always a meter is all that is available. We have to do the best we can with what's available. Describe the meter results as accurately as you can - there is information there to chew on....
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07-26-2011, 11:47 AM
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intermittent spark
Ok Mr. Edwards, well I followed all your instructions. It appears that I dont have any resistance. So your e-mail says I must have a wireing harness issue. I checked the black and wite wire, i checked cdi green wire all the way to the front. I also checked the red fuse wire from the battery to the front and it's ok. The handle bar switch is registering ok. What is my next move? This is driving me crazy...
Thanks Dave
Thanks Dave
#5
07-27-2011, 11:07 PM
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Ok Mr. Edwards, well I followed all your instructions. It appears that I dont have any resistance. So your e-mail says I must have a wireing harness issue. I checked the black and wite wire, i checked cdi green wire all the way to the front. I also checked the red fuse wire from the battery to the front and it's ok. The handle bar switch is registering ok. What is my next move? This is driving me crazy... Thanks Dave
Thanks DaveI'm not sure what you mean by "I dont have any resistance". That could be taken two ways: No resistance could be zero ohms (same thing as when the meter leads are shorted together). or no resistance could be infinite ohms (the same thing as when your meter leads are hanging free). These two situations couldn't be more different.
A third possibility is that you have you meter set wrong and aren't measuring resistance (in ohms) at all.
In the procedure there are several resistance measurements, and several voltage measurements. All of these are important, and all must be done accurately, with real valid results reported back. I know you said you checked them, but what are the results? There is diagnostic information in those values
.Do the best you can and describe in detail what you find. If necessary we can slow down and do each step one at a time...
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