Well, aluminum does have its drawbacks. A properly designed steel frame should never crack, but the same can't be said about aluminum, regardless of the manufacturer. So, it IS just a matter of time before the aluminum frames crack (although it may take many, many years of continuous usage...hehe). This just has to do with the fatigue properties of the metals (endurance limits).

This was probably the most pointless post I have ever made. I'm such a geek.

 

Hmm... Looks like the Cannondales have put on a few pounds since they first came out. ATV Sport does say 370lbs for the Speed and 375lbs dry for all the other models. The other mags and my FX manual list 355lbs dry and any where from 365-375lbs, most saying 372lbs, WET weight. I wonder whos right? All I have is one bathroom scale so I cant go out and weigh mine. I wish I could. It does feel lighter than the 400EX so who knows.

CornDog I agree somewhat with what you are saying about who's after who but, How long will your friend keep his 400EX stock? Most people don't race but, Most people do some mods to their quads. Alot of people who dont race still put on a pipe, air filter, tires & wheels, handlebars, wheel spacers, and even some go for A-arms frontshocks, axle, rear shock, and engine mods. For these people there are the C-Dales. Plus you get lightweight and EFI. Now the Moto is being built for the other 5% of people who will race. Like lonestar said its expen$ive to build a good race quad, with Cannondale we won't have to build one they have done it for us! and cheaper! This has been said many times but here it is again. It doesnt matter if the frame is steel or aluminum they both will crack or break or bend. Well my FX hasn't yet so I'm happy, and if it ever does I'll still be happy because I know it can happen to any frame stock or aftermarket.

 

Actually any material will crack over time if not designed properly. If you keep the stress levels below 13,755psi for 6061-T6 the part should pretty much last forever (500,000,000 cycles). It is all in the design.

 

lonestarbanshee, you're right!! about a year ago I was gonna get a CR125, it had an aluminum frame, was raced every weekend, and wasn't cracked anywhere. I think the people that are saying the stuff about the Cannondale's are just afraid of trying something new.

 

ltracerx, not to sound conceited.. but, Yes, I know I'm right. My friend has a CR125 that makes 8 or 9 races a month, and never has bent or broken anything frame related. The only drawback with aluminum is.. You better keep your bearings changed or you'll be buying a new one. If metal starts running around in an aluminum frame. Mucho Dinero. I have not seen a Cannondale in person, but I have read alot of information, and seen many many many pictures of their frames, and EVERY weld is made to precision. Have any of you guys ever checked out a 1999 400EX's welds, then compared them to a 2001's? The newer the bike, the sloppier they get. That's why the 1st year frame is always the best!

 

I rode a FX400 last year and would have tosay that it seemed like a very nice ride. I couldn't ever get used to that gear drive noise though.[Sounds like rocks in the engine]. All I can say is that the harder you ride it the better it responds.

Someone on this thread mentioned the fact that alot of people are just afraid of something new. I think that is correct, because I wouldn't own one either, RIGHT NOW. Cannondale has done more than alot of others guys have done when it comes to problems with the machines and they deserve the respect of the consumer for stepping up to such problems. As far as their involvement in the racing industry, well, it will only bring in the Japanese once again, so that is a good thing.

It will take years for this company to get any recognition and the problems last year just pushed it farther away. Remember Polaris in the mid-eightys? It took years for people to begin moving towards that brand because of those reliability factors in the early years. And it can be argued that they never really fixed problems when it comes to their smaller class 4bys. They still run the same engines and have the same problems. Artic Cat and Bombardier didn't have these problems because everyone is familiar with the Suzuki and Rotax engines.

All in All, I think that for dollar vs. dollar, it still comes out the same. While the Cannondale is a nice bike and rips right off the showroom floor, I don't look for it to come even close to replacing the 250R as the choice for racing until the AMA wakes up and realizes that there needs to be a "current production" rule in the class. You can't easily replace 14 years of track dominance. And you aren't gonna change the minds of all the guys who rode them for those 14 years.

It will be a tough challenge for ANY company, but I will be so glad when someone builds a machine that will replace the 250R and KEEP it in production. A 250R for whatever reason is NOT worth the dollar that people ask for them. Hell, both the Tecate and the Quadracer have won many a championships over the Honda in the early days. Gary Denton, Charlie Shepherd, and Mark Ehrhart made the Honda what it is today. Not Honda.[Same thing McGrath did for the HondaCR in the early ninetys and the Yamaha YZ in the late ninetys. THE WHOLE INDUSTRY IS JUST A FAD!

Whatever you ride, whether it be a Honda250R, Cannondale, Raptor, Banshee,......there is always someone who will spend more money to go faster than you, and ride better than you.

PICK A BRAND, A FAVORITE COLOR, AND RIDE!!!!

KNOWSALOT

 

There is alot of truth in your words KNOWSALOT. McGrath did it for the CR, Denton, Hart, and everyone else did it for the TRX. I also agree with the "Current Production" rule too. It seems like they would have a class that runs 400EX's and Raptors instead of all 250R's. The way it is in the nationals now is.. If you're not riding an R, you're just another lapped rider.

Cannondale will have to work to gain the reputation of Honda, and I think they're well on their way. As mentioned in my 1st post, they turned a possible customer down because of one faulty part. In my opinion, that is not only honest, but represents a very very good work ethic. If a company feels so strong about a product as Cannondale does about the Moto, I feel pretty safe. Cannondale said that they would stand behind the Moto, even though they can't offer a warranty on it.

Even if their products aren't the greatest, they are one helluva company!

 

4-strokemadman... it's good that you know how to read an engineering book... hehe... I don't mean to knock you, I just think that it is funny that you took the time to look up that 6061 case...

The point that I was alluding to in my post is what you have a keen sense of the obvious for - that it is up to the chassis designer to be able to develop a structurally sound frame that not only takes in the peak pseudo-static loads but also the various fatigue loadings that will be experienced over many hours of usage. The main problem with ATV frame design, as I see it from a mechanical engineering point of view, is that there are so many unknowns as far as applied loads and cycling. Of course, because this machine involves the human factor you want a very high margin of safety, BUT, you also don't want an ATV that weighs a ton and sacrifices performance (insert favorite Polaris joke here). The point is, Cannondale is taking a risky departure by using an aluminum alloy for their frame (whether it is in fact 6061-T6 I do not know). Although 500,000,000 cycles is alot, the frequency in which these peak amplitudes occur may be more often than anticipated; or, if the calculation for the peak oscillatory force was lower than real-world amplitudes, that 500,000,000 cycles could be cut down by a factor of 100 easily (to 500,000) and then, boom, you only have a 1 year life expectancy for a welded lower engine mount (as an example).

Don't get me wrong, I think that it is really cool that Cannondale is using aluminum as their frame material, BUT, there are other factors to consider, too. For example, what happens when you case really hard off of a jump and the lower frame rails are slammed into a protruding rock? Except for rare exceptions, most aluminums are relatively soft compared to steel (I'm kind of comparing apples to oranges here, but bear with me). I would be concerned about seriously tweaking one of those tubes.

The "cool factor" of aluminum might make people forget these things, though...

(I need to learn how to proff read...lol)