Captain Morgain, the whole argument started when you said you could build a CRF powered quad for less than $10,000 and you plans included a new frame and a new engine. Of course money could be saved if you already owned a 400EX?!

Captain, I noticed in your math there that you left out the cost of a custom built pipe. Does everyone get that free when they purchase your plans or does servicehonda give it to you because of your "business relationship" with them? Where's the carb at in your list? You might as well tack on another $375 or so for an FCR. You gonna run stainless steel brake lines or are the stock rubber lines good enough? Add another $160. Speaking of brakes, you have the disc but where's the calipers? I would assume you'd go with the 250R rear caliper-$233. A pair of front EX calipers is another $230. How about all your cabling, bolts, nuts, mounts, carb boots and so many other things that could be listed which will exceed your $500 "odds and ends" budget. I don't want to step on anyone else's toes here but Captain, this killer MX quad and you're going to run Works suspension??

 

Capt,
You forgot ALOT of stuff.... and your makeshift quad will have power, but nothing to get it to the ground...A Cannondale comes with high end items, which you opted for low end items....to do it RIGHT you way, your still up around 12,000 - 13,000. If you would put your son on the quad you just described instead of buying him a Cannondale....then your more desperate than I though....

 

Back to the orginal question

Hulk
For the money I would go with the Blaze or Moto pending the type of racing your planning on. This is unless you quad to custom build the machine up then go with the cannibal. You will have more money in added the aftermarket parts but you get to add the ones you want not the ones that come on the machine. I bought a speed and to totally set it up the way I want for woods racing I'll have about 13K in it. This includes carbon fiber rims, long travel a-arms, elka shocks, the 3 in 1 map selection and numerous other things. If I was to buy the blaze I would have most of the stuff and woould not have had as much in it in the long run but it would not have the set-up that I pefer just stock. Most people that race like to personalize their ride.

As for the GasGas quad (which I will be owning one soon). I heard from a goos source that the 300cc 2-stroke should be at the dealers at the end of the month. I've looked into setting it up and I plan on spending about $500 bucks in up-grades, not counting tires and rims, (I'm hoping the c'dales rims bolt up). So the most I will have in the machine will be $8000 grand OTD with up-grades. Not bad. If you want to stay with a 4-stroke by the cannondale, because the GasGas 4-stroke isnm't schedule for release until Jan-Feb. I'm thinking it'll be later than that.


Ok now that I anwser his question time to talk to the Captain. First off more power to you for supporting a company that doesn't listen to the quad racer. I say that because if the did you wouldn't be building this machine, Honda would have it on the showroom floor. Oh yeah that's right they introduced a new ute instead. Go Honda. I talked to my mechanic (FDO) one of the big engine builders on big bore kits for Honda 400ex. Cannondale has given him 2 engines for testing on stroker and big bore kits. I asked him about this 450 engine of Honda's and he said it was junk not to waste your time he could build a 400ex to kick it's butt. So to say the lease he was not impressed with the engine at all. This is coming from a guy who has been tring for the past 3 years to get me on a honda quad. After he got the cannondale engines and looked them over, he can't wait to start doing kits on them. So go ahead build your 10K 450 honda. When you hit 10k on it stop and let me know which track you'll be at and I'll go out of my way to bring my BMX bike (no engine) down there and kick your butt on the motorcross track (which I don't even race since I'm a woods racer). Why do I say this, it is becuase like Guy Raptor said no carb, brakes etc you'll won't be going anywhere. Or if you want a even match ($ for $) how about the My new GasGas (when I get) cause I'll only have 8k in it.

 

A CRF has more power than a cannondale.
So what!Cannondale has a different type of power that can work to an advantage over the CRF.
I witnessed the Super Motard race at Elkhart Lake I never saw a CRF pull from a dale out of a corner or even on the straight.
I did see guys wearing themselves out kickstarting a hot motor.
I also know that CRF have problems with the valves.
How about warranty what kind of warranty do you get with CRFquad?
Cannondale has a warranty even if you race as a matter of fact it seems like racers are taken care of quite well by cannondale.
How much is it worth to have factory support at all the nationals?
Capt.the only way you will get a Honda guy to a quad race is to tell him he can look at a cannondale.
Once you work on the fuel injection you will love it.No worries about dirt getting where it doesnt belong no gas running all over no jets the mapping makes changes you can feel right away and it is fun to do.I never considered jetting to be fun till I got the dale.

 

The CRF doesn't put out that much more power than my Blaze! It has a little more power off the bottom but revs out about the same. I think for the money you are better off with the Dale!

Captin Carl, the 2 people that I have talked to that put CRF engines into EX frame are wishing they had put them in an aftermarket R frame. They say the front is to light and they can't keep the front end down. One ended up with several cracks in his frame. The mild steel stock frames will not hold up for long with that much power on tap! There are alot of unexpected costs when doing a CRF/YZF conversion, I know this from first hand experience.

After riding the CRF and Blaze all I can say is does anyone want to buy our CRF?

 

Jeff,

Ballpark wise, what do you think you have in it? Was I pretty close?

Exactly! I would not want the headache of putting together a hybrid quad! Unless you have a heck of a garage, I wouldn't attempt it. Your typical weekend warrior racer type garage won't have a chance... A 250r I helped my friend rebuild was enough of a headache, I couldn't imagine doing a CRF quad.

 

Well, alot of my sponsors kicked in some free stuff so it didn't cost as much as it would have if we had to buy everything. It would cost in the neighborhood of $15,000 to build one. This is using an aftermarket frame! We will be selling ours for $15,000.

 

I'm trying to understand why you even sold your R if you are going to be using a 400EX frame in this scenario!! You spend over $4K on a CR450 motor plus other motor related parts and you stick it in a stock frame!! Obviously you are not a serious MX'er if this is your plan of building a quad. You should have kept the R and saved your $10K!!

Something else you haven't thought about. Where is your warranty with this $10K quad!! You would have had one with Cannondale and Cannondale has consistently warranted items beyond the 6 month warranty period!!

BTW, have you had one too many concusions!!????[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

 

LOL, you're going to use a stock 400ex frame w/ a CRF motor in it and race MX with it?!?! That frame will barely hold up to MX racing w/ the stock motor in it, how long do you think it will last with that CRF motor in it? Johnny Hale used to have a YZF quad and there was almost nothing on it that was stock (including the frame) and he said that he could go maybe 8 months w/o the frame falling apart... the 400ex frame isn't that strong.

But hey, if thats what you want to do, go for it. Maybe you'll have a lot of good luck.

 

He needs to add on several hundred for welding expenses to gusset the 400EX frame. With the correct gusseting it might make 1 season on a 400EX frame. Dyno reports I've seen on the crf450 show 46 to 48 horsepower stock and 51 to 53 with a little work. And that was in a bike I would assume that the drivetrain of a quad would eat more power than the bike. I can't see this being any quicker than a Dale with Moto or better mapping and a few other goodies. Oh and then there is the swingarm issue. Maybe one of you guy's will have to offer to pay his way to get him to show up with his LT160 and race.