twenty,

You hoped that what you said above made sense?.................I just wanted to congratulate you for being one of the first people in this country to SAY IT !

You cannot 'conveniently' use the government as both the whipping boy and the answer to all of our problems.

Why are we the first people to suggest that ENFORCEMENT is the key to safety and that this job can be paid for by any ignorant fool that thinks otherwise.................through fines and impoundment?

How many quad clubs out there (and there 'are' a few) do you see raising money to buy a quad for another enforcement officer and the salary needed to swing a leg over it?

(Your average rider):
"You want me to give you money to make it easier for the law to catch up with me..........why not only 'no'......but 'hell' no!"

Again, many quad riders are the biggest off-road 'hypocites' on the planet...........'bar none'.

The sad part is, that our young people are learning absolutely NOTHING about stewardship of the land and the consequences of inaction............... or the "no-b.s." approach to matters that our older generation have already instilled in us.

And "THAT", my friends; is where our biggest threat now lies.................how do we get our younger generation to talk in the same terms as us?

Or has "political correctness" gotten so far down the age ladder that national groups are thinking that anything "controversial" would affect the membership checks from coming in?

Maybe you're right, twenty..................does this nation need a group to step in here and start talking to our community like they've never been talked to before?

 

John,
I dont think that membership is as good as you may think it is?I have spoken to many that will not be renewing their memberships and spoken to some that have no intention to ever joining the organization but will stay with the Forum.

Look at how long I sat back and took in all this club BS that was flown my way before I went south?

Im only going to say that the pasture is not as green as it may appear!

Muddy4life

 

And they will 'use' that forum to do WHAT?

Ask questions of our orv board representative?

Gee, I guess they can't do THAT because the webmaster of that same forum has taken away their ability to do so! (and let's all 'remember' that the association and the forum "ARE IN NO WAY CONNECTED".......yeah, right.....).

Recruit new members?

What are these guys going to tell any 'new' person who comes along, on the forum?

....."Well, you see.........even though this site consists ENTIRELY of information that promotes this club....WE DON'T BELONG TO OR PROMOTE IT !!!........heck, we haven't renewed in 'years'...........yet if an issue comes up that we think this club needs 'adressing'.............we WASTE our time talking about it on this site!....all the time knowing full well that both the webmaster and 'the family' are sitting back and literally 'laughing' at the futility of our problems !!!.......let alone being appraised of every situation that might possibly (God forbid) 'question' their leadership...........before anybody 'important' ever has a chance to hear about it!...."

Who doesn't see this?
One guy sitting back at his computer and chuckling that "they can't do anything, if they don't go through ME"........and the other guy looking over his shoulder; excitedly spitting out "You bet, 'boss'! ....and I'll kick 'em off the forum before they even have a chance to try it!......"

Yeah, these guys are taking a real 'stand' by using the same "club website" (oh, I'm sorry....the webmaster doesn't like people using those two words 'together'.....) that 'they themselves' refuse to rejoin!...........yet isn't it ironic that the same people in charge of making decisions 'for the rest of us'; NEVER WANTED their membership to get beyond the 'social' level IN THE FIRST PLACE...........and here comes these 'homeless' people......... doing NOTHING BUT keeping it that way? (let alone promoting the idea to our young people that there is nothing 'else' to talk about).

Do these guys actually believe that a couple lost membership dues and maybe a few less people doing trail maintenance.......... is going to mean a damn thing to somebody who has built a perpetual "non-profit" MACHINE off their very own backs?

Yeah, they're all really making 'a statement' by making sure they still have a place to coordinate who brings 'the weenies' to the next 'onofficial' weekend ride..............where they will talk about WHAT?

Whatever some goof from 'the inside' of their former club..............'slips away' to tell them?

"Beware of the messenger" is about all I can say.

 

Why not take the issues to print and press?

Write letters to the editors of the magazines, tv stations, newspapers.....heck even leave some messages on bathroom walls! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Dirtwheels

*TVIllustrated check link, had to edit so I could post

*TVNews check link, had to edit so I could post

*TVSource check link, had to edit so I could post

Racer X Illustrated

Steelriders

ATVScene

ATVSafety

NOHVCC

ATVA (just for you BB [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] )

That's just the tip of the iceberg......get your local news station interested or your local newspaper involved, invite them out to rides or to training sessions. Contact your LOCAL and STATE representatives.

Encourage all your riding buddies to write letters, email, phone calls, etc.... Don't be discouraged if you don't get a response, keep at it and you may find someone that can provide a better platform than an internet forum......you can see for yourself on these very forums that there are those riders out there that need a swift kick to dislodge their heads (Helmet or No Helmet -- COPS -- Railroad....fine? -- $350+ speeding ticket

If "our" organization isn't doing it then we should

There's my $0.02 ($0.000000189 Canadian [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ) [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Thanks, Rook and appreciated the "here's your sign" links (sorry if I got off-topic a little there, also).

I would actually ENJOY hearing back from any group like the ATVA on why they have absolutely no public safety criteria published............. especially when they seem to be the biggest group out there "fighting" for it!

Better yet, I'd like some of the groups you listed to simply explain 'exactly' what they are fighting for......................then maybe we could all just simply be one large voice to 'the others'! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Amen to that!



I think no one has questioned anything for so long because of the fear of losing an organization's "support" that it has come back to haunt us all.....now those same organizations don't take to the questioning of their "authority" too kindly.

Maybe a revolt or revolution is what it will finally take to get the powers-that-be to take note of what the people who pay the bills are saying and wanting....hopefully it won't come to that or if it does hopefully not too late.

Now one thing I think we need to make sure in any correspondence or dialogue is that these groups aren't bad/evil from the get-go.....a lot of good has come from them and with the weight of an organized group behind it our sport has improved.

 

BLACKBALLED,
you ask WHAT is the Forum used for?

1.Its the easiest way to find other riders who like to ride Michigans ORV trails with someone OTHER than themselves
2.Its a place to download Michigans trail maps from
3.You can get very EFFECTIVE updates on a variety of Michigan trails
4.You can find fixes for mechanical problems ect,regarding various ATVs
5.Legislative issues are talked about in that Forum
6.Its extremly easy to ''plan'' future ATV rides in this Forum
7.Find ''reptable''dealers in YOUR area
ECT ECT ECT?

Although this Forum does not keep its members and non members abreast of legislative issues concerning the future of their sport BY THE PRESIDENT,it is still the BEST thing going in Michigan to keep the common ATVer abreast of ATV related issues,bar none.

 

I could not have said it better. You HAVE to recognize what these people have done and are doing. They are by no means "anti-atv"........yet when one of their members is out there kicking me off of websites for "daring to question" how they are handling certain issues which are undoubtedly larger than where the next "GNCC race" is going to be held?

That's wrong...... and there are certain members who have become arrogant enough to think that there aren't enough people out there who have the intellectual capacity to figure out 'why'. (ever been 'talked down to' by a "Damocles" or a "Tree Farmer"?..................).


Thanks for the great paragraph which pretty much sums up my feelings as well.

 

(From your last sentence):

"Why" would a forum member ALLOW somebody to SUBJUGATE "keeping its members and non-members abreast of legislative issues concerning the ***FUTURE OF OUR SPORT***......to...."keep(ing) the common atver abreast of atv "related" issues (or any of the other examples you mentioned?).

And then I'm supposed to tell some kid or young man/woman to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".......because us 'adults' are afraid we might get kicked off AN ATV SITE if we ask the wrong question about how our state orv system WORKS?

I'm sorry, but our KIDS are the future of this sport...........and I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to teach them NOT to ask questions like I attempted to......... or to hang around with a bunch of people who are 'afraid to' (who was it; that let this administration just "pull out" of this forum..... with not a damn word from ANYBODY?).
ESPECIALLY when those same people have flat out refused to talk about this brand new 'big city' riding area for THEMSELVES.....while the 'rest of the state' can't even get a study done to figure out how screwed up our trails are NOW and how much money it will take TO FIX THEM !!!.

I apoligize, Rook; for going off-topic again.............yet doesn't some of this tie in 'nicely' to what we were just talking about?

I'll just have to disagree, Bill................. all the while; 'hoping and praying' that our young people are a lot more willing to strap a set on than their 'parents' ever were, at the turn of this century (and I certainly wouldn't include 'yourself' on that list). [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Somebody please remind me.........."who is it" that wanted all the 'troublemakers' to be gone and things to appear like "nothing ever happened" on the "club website"? (gee, I'm 'sorrry'.........we're not supposed to use those last two words 'together'...........).

 

I just was on the CPSC website and they are on a WITCH HUNT WITH ATVs! Everywhere you go on that site from press releases to recall notices, ATVs top their charts. And alot of their rhetoric is "estimated," and something "may cause." injury or death. nothing in concrete proof. From reading this stuff , it seems like they are on the warpath and we are not. We need to wake up. They reported over 111,000 injuries related to ATVs with a few years(1997-2001); 357 deaths. last time they reported numbers like that was in 1985 concerning 3 wheelers. And we all know what happend next... Now, with 700,000 atvs sold per year -give or take a hundred thousand per year for only a couple years of those years, the percentages of injury and deaths (though tragic and I feel for them) are not that astronomical like they are saying. It is troubling to see people injured and stuff, but I garrantee you the reason most of it happened was because a rule was not followed with the operation of the vehicle (just like a car).

Now, if the PRODUCT is not at fault, CPSC should stay the hell out of it! But if like a wheel or something fell off, then they would have a case to get involved. But at all these meetings they are holding across the country (you wont hear about them all unless you GO TO THEIR SITE) they have people giving sad stories...these really go along way with lawmakers, guys... There needs to by more of us law abiding riders at these meetings. CALL THEM and get on the list. We need to shut them down before it gets out of hand. Every one needs to wake up and STORM them, testify for your right to have a quad and for your quad, because they seem like they wont rest until they are gone. And this may ruffle some feathers but I dont care - DO NOT ACT LIKE IDIOTS on quads anymore. YOU ARE HURTING THE SPORT FOR ALL OF US AND THEY BETTER NOT BAN QUADS BECAUSE OF YOUR STUPIDITY. IF YOU CANT RIDE CORRECTLY, STAY OFF OF THEM.

On another note, I wonder how ATVs got under the CPSC jurisdiction to begin with? Boats, cars and motorcylcles (dirtbikes are) are not under their reach. Maybe we should get ATVs moved to another jurisdiction that understands motorized vehicles better.

Seriously guys, we need to focus a little more on this stuff than arguing about who's bike is faster.
If we dont, we wont have anything to argue about.