NOHVCC Testifies at CPSC ATV Safety Hearing
#1
07-02-2003, 01:48 AM
NOHVCC Testifies at CPSC ATV Safety Hearing
Article
In case no one heard anything else about it....it's a couple of weeks old
This pretty much sums up what we already know....
NOHVCC Executive Director Russ Ehnes spoke at the hearing and reported, “What the commission saw was that the overwhelming majority ATV-related injury that occurs in this country is because the rider was breaking at least one of the major safety rules set forth by the manufacturers of the vehicles
And this is encouraging....
Ehnes continues, “We argued that in order to decrease injuries, the CPSC should put their efforts towards supporting increased training opportunities for ATV riders to educate them about proper riding gear, teach them safe riding techniques, and improve their riding skills. We also need help parents to be more responsible about letting kids use ATV that don’t fit and letting kids ride unsupervised
More Info
In case no one heard anything else about it....it's a couple of weeks old
This pretty much sums up what we already know....
NOHVCC Executive Director Russ Ehnes spoke at the hearing and reported, “What the commission saw was that the overwhelming majority ATV-related injury that occurs in this country is because the rider was breaking at least one of the major safety rules set forth by the manufacturers of the vehicles
And this is encouraging....
Ehnes continues, “We argued that in order to decrease injuries, the CPSC should put their efforts towards supporting increased training opportunities for ATV riders to educate them about proper riding gear, teach them safe riding techniques, and improve their riding skills. We also need help parents to be more responsible about letting kids use ATV that don’t fit and letting kids ride unsupervised
More Info
#2
07-02-2003, 08:53 AM
NOHVCC Testifies at CPSC ATV Safety Hearing
[quote]
Originally posted by: RookWV
NOHVCC Executive Director Russ Ehnes spoke at the hearing and reported (the following):
......“We argued that in order to decrease injuries, the ***'CPSC'*** should put their efforts towards supporting increased training opportunities for ATV riders to educate them about proper riding gear, teach them safe riding techniques, and improve their riding skills. ***'We'*** also need help parents to be more responsible about letting kids use ATV(s) that don’t fit and letting kids ride unsupervised
Now here's the 'other' national organization commenting on the same subject:
..." Doug Morris, director of the ATVA, testified that.............existing commission guidelines setting machine size limits for riders under 16 actually impede safety training.
So WHO should be doing WHAT here?
We've got the NOHVCC claiming that it is the ***CPSC's*** JOB (a 'federal' agency) to support increased training opportunities...................
But it is ***WE*** (who is this?) who need to 'HELP' parents be "more responsible" about letting kids use atvs that "don't fit" (to what standard?)........... and letting kids ride unsupervised !!!!
Combine those two statements with the ATVA's assertion that safety training is being impeded by current law(which is true).............although the petition that they brought forward that day defines absolutely NOTHING about what "we" all want done on age/size recommendations beyond the word "appropriate"..................................... .
And the CPSC is supposed to come away from that meeting with WHAT???!!!
(The CPSC talking afterwards):
"Well, I guess it's "our" job to come up with subsidized training money and not the STATE's or even INDIVIDUALS......................evidently, the 'NOHVCC' is going to be the one who not only "helps" these parents be more responsible; but will be the entity who takes the steps needed to solve all our "supervisation" problems as well! It also seems that the ATVA/NOHVCC will be making some kind of 'future' determination on what size machine is supposed to "fit" all these kids ............. if they ever get around to telling this agency exactly what that standard should be! .............sounds like we wasted a trip down to W.V. folks!...............these atv people are ALMOST ready to 'stand up for something' !!! (we just need to find out what that is, 'when' they're going to say it and exactly 'who' should be responsible for what they suggest!............ [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] ) "
I mean, c'mon!!!! Does ANYBODY out there understand what I'm trying to say here?............. and just HOW LONG do you think this "politically correct" approach can go on before somebody actually has to come up with a PLAN to go along with all this rhetoric?
Would that be about the time that the CPSC decides that if "we" don't want to talk 'specifics' (gotta please 'everybody'; don't you know).............then 'they' certainly have no problem with doing so?
Originally posted by: RookWV
NOHVCC Executive Director Russ Ehnes spoke at the hearing and reported (the following):
......“We argued that in order to decrease injuries, the ***'CPSC'*** should put their efforts towards supporting increased training opportunities for ATV riders to educate them about proper riding gear, teach them safe riding techniques, and improve their riding skills. ***'We'*** also need help parents to be more responsible about letting kids use ATV(s) that don’t fit and letting kids ride unsupervised
Now here's the 'other' national organization commenting on the same subject:
..." Doug Morris, director of the ATVA, testified that.............existing commission guidelines setting machine size limits for riders under 16 actually impede safety training.
So WHO should be doing WHAT here?
We've got the NOHVCC claiming that it is the ***CPSC's*** JOB (a 'federal' agency) to support increased training opportunities...................
But it is ***WE*** (who is this?) who need to 'HELP' parents be "more responsible" about letting kids use atvs that "don't fit" (to what standard?)........... and letting kids ride unsupervised !!!!
Combine those two statements with the ATVA's assertion that safety training is being impeded by current law(which is true).............although the petition that they brought forward that day defines absolutely NOTHING about what "we" all want done on age/size recommendations beyond the word "appropriate"..................................... .
And the CPSC is supposed to come away from that meeting with WHAT???!!!
(The CPSC talking afterwards):
"Well, I guess it's "our" job to come up with subsidized training money and not the STATE's or even INDIVIDUALS......................evidently, the 'NOHVCC' is going to be the one who not only "helps" these parents be more responsible; but will be the entity who takes the steps needed to solve all our "supervisation" problems as well! It also seems that the ATVA/NOHVCC will be making some kind of 'future' determination on what size machine is supposed to "fit" all these kids ............. if they ever get around to telling this agency exactly what that standard should be! .............sounds like we wasted a trip down to W.V. folks!...............these atv people are ALMOST ready to 'stand up for something' !!! (we just need to find out what that is, 'when' they're going to say it and exactly 'who' should be responsible for what they suggest!............ [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] ) "
I mean, c'mon!!!! Does ANYBODY out there understand what I'm trying to say here?............. and just HOW LONG do you think this "politically correct" approach can go on before somebody actually has to come up with a PLAN to go along with all this rhetoric?
Would that be about the time that the CPSC decides that if "we" don't want to talk 'specifics' (gotta please 'everybody'; don't you know).............then 'they' certainly have no problem with doing so?
#3
07-02-2003, 01:43 PM
NOHVCC Testifies at CPSC ATV Safety Hearing
Blackballed,
unfortunately, common sense seems to be out the window, and guidelines to protect us from ourselves will be given,
since the CPSC wants, input, by ned, lets give it to them.
The last time I looked at that popriveted warning sing on the quad, it said dont ride on roads, paved surfaces, carry passengers, od be below the age of 16. The manual that comes with the quad (2 actually, and a video) 1 is for the machine, it goes over saftey, the other is for saftey, and riding, the video is for saftey and riding,
unless the atv community gets together and tells what it wants (realisticly) well get something we Don't want.
I'd like to see the following:
1) age restrictions on machines based on height/weight with some room for discresionary sizes based on experience.
2) at time of sale, dealer should ask # of individuals in family, and ages
3) a training course for the family be provided at/prior to sale of machine, or proof by registration card that one has taken a course to be exempt from it.
4) safety equipment must be mandatory for all minors, (boots, gloves, helmet, goggles)
5) stress a need to try to increase legal riding areas, as it will cut down the illegal activity.
I believe that , unfortunately, one cannot legislate common sense. Some folks will let their kids ride un supervised 2-3 at a time, on what they believe is a toy. I call that Bad parenting, Not faulty equipment design. The reason why injuries are on the increase is due to more atv's are sold. same thing for skateboards, and bikes.
when my wife got her motorcycle, (650 Yammy) she had NEVER ridden, we took a rider course together, even though I was not required to take one, I did. yes, it was real hot in the summer here, never got out of 2nd gear, but did I learn things I did'nt know, YES, was it worthwhile, SURE, do I reccomend it POSITIVELY.
now why should letting my kids ride a quad be any different?
unfortunately, common sense seems to be out the window, and guidelines to protect us from ourselves will be given,
since the CPSC wants, input, by ned, lets give it to them.
The last time I looked at that popriveted warning sing on the quad, it said dont ride on roads, paved surfaces, carry passengers, od be below the age of 16. The manual that comes with the quad (2 actually, and a video) 1 is for the machine, it goes over saftey, the other is for saftey, and riding, the video is for saftey and riding,
unless the atv community gets together and tells what it wants (realisticly) well get something we Don't want.
I'd like to see the following:
1) age restrictions on machines based on height/weight with some room for discresionary sizes based on experience.
2) at time of sale, dealer should ask # of individuals in family, and ages
3) a training course for the family be provided at/prior to sale of machine, or proof by registration card that one has taken a course to be exempt from it.
4) safety equipment must be mandatory for all minors, (boots, gloves, helmet, goggles)
5) stress a need to try to increase legal riding areas, as it will cut down the illegal activity.
I believe that , unfortunately, one cannot legislate common sense. Some folks will let their kids ride un supervised 2-3 at a time, on what they believe is a toy. I call that Bad parenting, Not faulty equipment design. The reason why injuries are on the increase is due to more atv's are sold. same thing for skateboards, and bikes.
when my wife got her motorcycle, (650 Yammy) she had NEVER ridden, we took a rider course together, even though I was not required to take one, I did. yes, it was real hot in the summer here, never got out of 2nd gear, but did I learn things I did'nt know, YES, was it worthwhile, SURE, do I reccomend it POSITIVELY.
now why should letting my kids ride a quad be any different?
#4
07-03-2003, 07:52 PM
#5
07-04-2003, 01:47 PM
NOHVCC Testifies at CPSC ATV Safety Hearing
[quote]
Originally posted by: Surveyor
".......guidelines to protect us from ourselves will be given.......since the CPSC wants input, by ned, lets give it to them.........."
I couldn't have said it better.
Yet, we have a problem here............For example: You list five fairly SPECIFIC courses of action below:
(From surveyor):
1) age restrictions on machines based on height/weight with some room for discresionary sizes based on experience.
2) at time of sale, dealer should ask # of individuals in family, and ages.
3) a training course for the family be provided at/prior to sale of machine, or proof by registration card that one has taken a course to be exempt from it.
4) safety equipment must be mandatory for all minors, (boots, gloves, helmet, goggles)
5) stress a need to try to increase legal riding areas, as it will cut down the illegal activity.
The ATVA has insisted that no further 'regulation' is needed..................so tell me how items 1 thru 4 are ever going to happen without it? Their mission statement lists many other common sense items as goals................yet, when no one is willing to talk 'bluntly' (as mentioned earlier) in order to effectively keep the govt. off our backs by policing our own..............how is any of this ever going to get done? Are people going to just naturally 'gravitate' towards these 'ideals' when nobody wants to talk 'punishment' for not living by them for the simple sake of ignorance or cost?
(From surveyor):
".....I believe that , unfortunately, one cannot legislate common sense...........I call that Bad parenting....."
This seems to be where I am confused. I have also seen "common sense" replaced with the word "responsibility" in that same sentance.
So, is the atving community trying to tell the government that we need no further regulations 'because'........... the only kids getting hurt, killed and maimed out there are totalling the same number as would suffer if our government put regulations in place to make all your specific suggestions more than an 'idea(l)' ?
I mean, I'm a big believer in "natural selection" and that a certain amount of people are going to die each year out of their own (OR THEIR PARENT'S) stupidity...................but how can we truly protect the 'innocent' of this country; if our national organizations have now claimed that no further regulations should be handled on a 'national' level? Have 'the states' picked this ball up already and run it in? Especially when states like like West Virginia can't even agree on the most BASIC rules of "common sense" which you mentioned earlier that cannot be legislated?
The following was quoted to me by a West Virginian resident who didn't necessarily like the fact that I am questioning all of this. Believe it or not; this was all put forth in the DEFENSE of W.V. law and with the following reasoning: "well.......we don't have it........but neither do these people either!......":
31 states don't have a helmet law.........of the 19 that do.......8 apply to public land ONLY
34 states don't have a minimum operator age law.......of the 16 that do.........9 apply to public land ONLY
37 states have no rider training law..........of the 13 that do..........5 apply to public land ONLY
(Source: MIC Summary of state OHV Regulations; 2001)
Not only am I 'unimpressed' by these statistics(and here comes the 'kicker').................THE GUY TELLING ME THIS IS A FOUNDING MEMBER OF THE NOHVCC AND A LIFETIME MEMBER OF THE AMA !!!!!
For a country that needs 'no further regulations'...........who in the heck is being regulated as it is......... and are these the ONLY people who really needed it in the first place?
Who wants their cake and still be able to eat it too? Is it any wonder why I have been kicked off two major websites for arguing this point 'alone'........and why avowed AMA members on both sites have flat out refused to discuss the hipocracy of all this?
Thanks for your comments and especially liked your idea of requiring all kids to wear protective gear..............I'd even throw in a chest protector. Wouldn't it be a 'shame' if parents were REQUIRED to spend the large amounts of money needed to let kids enjoy our sport safely 'throughout' their growth cycle? The better question is....... why wasn't this FACT included in the CPSC petition that also included an ATVA membership application?
(note to the ATVA from a potential member who has been asked to 'stand up' on an issue):
"You want me to sign this petition and join a club who is fighting for the government to MAKE me spend the money needed to acquire the proper riding gear for my children, as they grow larger each year?.......LOL! "
Sometimes there is more to the story beyond being 'over-regulated'. Frankly, it sickens me that parents will spend thousands of dollars on these machines; with the full intention that the government or manufacturer should pay for their kid's training.....................and CERTAINLY stay out of their 'pocketbooks' afterwards.......... with absolutely NO rules which spell out and enforce what is needed for their kids to ride them safely.
There are a lot of cheap parents out there who could care less what their quad actually costs beyond the sticker price. More discouraging is the amount of people who refuse to literally SHAME these people (their 'friends') into acting responsibly (and I am truly 'sorry' that it has gotten to that point).......that is before the government is forced to step in and do their parenting job for them.
But then again; we aren't really supposed to talk about all this and 'upset' anyone .......................................[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
Originally posted by: Surveyor
".......guidelines to protect us from ourselves will be given.......since the CPSC wants input, by ned, lets give it to them.........."
I couldn't have said it better.
Yet, we have a problem here............For example: You list five fairly SPECIFIC courses of action below:
(From surveyor):
1) age restrictions on machines based on height/weight with some room for discresionary sizes based on experience.
2) at time of sale, dealer should ask # of individuals in family, and ages.
3) a training course for the family be provided at/prior to sale of machine, or proof by registration card that one has taken a course to be exempt from it.
4) safety equipment must be mandatory for all minors, (boots, gloves, helmet, goggles)
5) stress a need to try to increase legal riding areas, as it will cut down the illegal activity.
The ATVA has insisted that no further 'regulation' is needed..................so tell me how items 1 thru 4 are ever going to happen without it? Their mission statement lists many other common sense items as goals................yet, when no one is willing to talk 'bluntly' (as mentioned earlier) in order to effectively keep the govt. off our backs by policing our own..............how is any of this ever going to get done? Are people going to just naturally 'gravitate' towards these 'ideals' when nobody wants to talk 'punishment' for not living by them for the simple sake of ignorance or cost?
(From surveyor):
".....I believe that , unfortunately, one cannot legislate common sense...........I call that Bad parenting....."
This seems to be where I am confused. I have also seen "common sense" replaced with the word "responsibility" in that same sentance.
So, is the atving community trying to tell the government that we need no further regulations 'because'........... the only kids getting hurt, killed and maimed out there are totalling the same number as would suffer if our government put regulations in place to make all your specific suggestions more than an 'idea(l)' ?
I mean, I'm a big believer in "natural selection" and that a certain amount of people are going to die each year out of their own (OR THEIR PARENT'S) stupidity...................but how can we truly protect the 'innocent' of this country; if our national organizations have now claimed that no further regulations should be handled on a 'national' level? Have 'the states' picked this ball up already and run it in? Especially when states like like West Virginia can't even agree on the most BASIC rules of "common sense" which you mentioned earlier that cannot be legislated?
The following was quoted to me by a West Virginian resident who didn't necessarily like the fact that I am questioning all of this. Believe it or not; this was all put forth in the DEFENSE of W.V. law and with the following reasoning: "well.......we don't have it........but neither do these people either!......":
31 states don't have a helmet law.........of the 19 that do.......8 apply to public land ONLY
34 states don't have a minimum operator age law.......of the 16 that do.........9 apply to public land ONLY
37 states have no rider training law..........of the 13 that do..........5 apply to public land ONLY
(Source: MIC Summary of state OHV Regulations; 2001)
Not only am I 'unimpressed' by these statistics(and here comes the 'kicker').................THE GUY TELLING ME THIS IS A FOUNDING MEMBER OF THE NOHVCC AND A LIFETIME MEMBER OF THE AMA !!!!!
For a country that needs 'no further regulations'...........who in the heck is being regulated as it is......... and are these the ONLY people who really needed it in the first place?
Who wants their cake and still be able to eat it too? Is it any wonder why I have been kicked off two major websites for arguing this point 'alone'........and why avowed AMA members on both sites have flat out refused to discuss the hipocracy of all this?
Thanks for your comments and especially liked your idea of requiring all kids to wear protective gear..............I'd even throw in a chest protector. Wouldn't it be a 'shame' if parents were REQUIRED to spend the large amounts of money needed to let kids enjoy our sport safely 'throughout' their growth cycle? The better question is....... why wasn't this FACT included in the CPSC petition that also included an ATVA membership application?
(note to the ATVA from a potential member who has been asked to 'stand up' on an issue):
"You want me to sign this petition and join a club who is fighting for the government to MAKE me spend the money needed to acquire the proper riding gear for my children, as they grow larger each year?.......LOL! "
Sometimes there is more to the story beyond being 'over-regulated'. Frankly, it sickens me that parents will spend thousands of dollars on these machines; with the full intention that the government or manufacturer should pay for their kid's training.....................and CERTAINLY stay out of their 'pocketbooks' afterwards.......... with absolutely NO rules which spell out and enforce what is needed for their kids to ride them safely.
There are a lot of cheap parents out there who could care less what their quad actually costs beyond the sticker price. More discouraging is the amount of people who refuse to literally SHAME these people (their 'friends') into acting responsibly (and I am truly 'sorry' that it has gotten to that point).......that is before the government is forced to step in and do their parenting job for them.
But then again; we aren't really supposed to talk about all this and 'upset' anyone .......................................[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
#6
07-05-2003, 12:17 PM
NOHVCC Testifies at CPSC ATV Safety Hearing
Laws, Regulations and Restrictions !!
If the adult rider has a lack of common sense then you can sure bet the kid is the same way![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
I've watched so called "experienced" adults roll the cycles and atv's off the trailer at the Kalkaska trail head and run full ***** across the lot to the begining of the trail with the young-uns rippin behind them. Looks real cool but the "IDIOTS" (whoops did I yell?) continue on without even considering the amount of riders out there who are relaxing and resting or repairing the rides. Yeah thats what ya need , a cylinder full of crap while makin repairs !!
ITS A PARKING LOT YOU A-HOLES. The adults are too blame because for some reason they think thats Ok.
If you dont take a slower ride through the trail to see whats out there before you go Berzerk then your common sense needs a top end overhaul !
I know I'll get some S--t for this response but I could care less... Most of the ATVers out there are being stupid because they lack even the slightest flicker of common sense. There are less experienced riders out there trying to learn how to ride and enjoy the trails. If ya see a nimrod doing some stupid crap then wait by thier rides in the lot and tell them the way it needs to be. As a 6 foot tall 300lb red head approaches you in Kalkaska and hes not smiling then you WILL get an earfull but I will not embarass you in front of the kids. I will be reasonable and wont be looking ta start anything except to start your brain working.
" Cant we all just get along" (RODNEY KING) LOL
Have fun but use your freakin head folks or we are gonna lose all of our places to ride !!!
Common sense and brains will blow your modified bikes off the track... Use the bubble on your shoulders and prove to the masses that dont enjoy motorsports that they are missing something!! 2 on a banshee is ignorant...2 on any one person vehicle is BRAINLESS. Little-uns on full size vehicles ? What where you thinking? Get them a 50 and teach them to respect a motorized vehicle. DNR Confiscate the bikes of the offenders and they will think and pass the experience on..
OK I 'm done! Just think a little people.
If the adult rider has a lack of common sense then you can sure bet the kid is the same way![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
I've watched so called "experienced" adults roll the cycles and atv's off the trailer at the Kalkaska trail head and run full ***** across the lot to the begining of the trail with the young-uns rippin behind them. Looks real cool but the "IDIOTS" (whoops did I yell?) continue on without even considering the amount of riders out there who are relaxing and resting or repairing the rides. Yeah thats what ya need , a cylinder full of crap while makin repairs !!
ITS A PARKING LOT YOU A-HOLES. The adults are too blame because for some reason they think thats Ok.
If you dont take a slower ride through the trail to see whats out there before you go Berzerk then your common sense needs a top end overhaul !
I know I'll get some S--t for this response but I could care less... Most of the ATVers out there are being stupid because they lack even the slightest flicker of common sense. There are less experienced riders out there trying to learn how to ride and enjoy the trails. If ya see a nimrod doing some stupid crap then wait by thier rides in the lot and tell them the way it needs to be. As a 6 foot tall 300lb red head approaches you in Kalkaska and hes not smiling then you WILL get an earfull but I will not embarass you in front of the kids. I will be reasonable and wont be looking ta start anything except to start your brain working.
" Cant we all just get along" (RODNEY KING) LOL
Have fun but use your freakin head folks or we are gonna lose all of our places to ride !!!
Common sense and brains will blow your modified bikes off the track... Use the bubble on your shoulders and prove to the masses that dont enjoy motorsports that they are missing something!! 2 on a banshee is ignorant...2 on any one person vehicle is BRAINLESS. Little-uns on full size vehicles ? What where you thinking? Get them a 50 and teach them to respect a motorized vehicle. DNR Confiscate the bikes of the offenders and they will think and pass the experience on..
OK I 'm done! Just think a little people.
#7
07-05-2003, 01:27 PM
NOHVCC Testifies at CPSC ATV Safety Hearing
Thanks for your response, Hank. We could really use folks like yourself to keep questioning what's happening here in Michigan.
For you folks who believe that our 'national' organizations could use a make-over?............take a look at our representation here in Michigan and why I started investigating this mess in the first place.
You honestly wouldn't believe it if you saw it for yourself. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
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#8
07-05-2003, 03:35 PM
NOHVCC Testifies at CPSC ATV Safety Hearing
Well guys, I've been known to yank some chains, but that is not what i want to do here. I can see both sides of the issues, and you all make good points. I cannot comment about michigan since i dont live there, but I have heard things about it. I guess what my question would be, then, is what do YOU think should be done about it? See, if we were in the animal kingdom, we could allow for the process of natural selection and survival of the fittest to take of this!.. . But since we dont, we can try to hope for medical science to make a "common sense" pill so that this stuff goes away. Since that probably wont happen either, adhering to regulations seems like the way to make some kinda sense out of it all.
I hate rules just like everyone else. But i'd rather some guidelines and rules rather than letting THEM take away quads like they did 3wheelers. Remember that? Where was everyone on the crusade back then? I am not for CC limits on engine size, though. But I am for training. The problem is people think ATVs are a toy, they dont know how to operate it, they get hurt, they whine, they sue. Then CPSC jumps in on it and wants something done. But yes, ultimately, it is the riders' ignorance (whatever may cause it) that is responsible for 99.999% of the problems. To cut down of the ignorance, the "evil empire" of the national organizations are suggesting more training. Whats wrong with that? That seems like they are helping the cause suggesting the watchdogs look at something else and not the bikes as being the cause of the problems. Let me ask you this: If you were to fly in a plane, would you want that pilot to be qualified and have proper training before taking off? Or would just let him use his "common sense?"
Sincerely, all kidding and offences aside, what do you think should be done to fix the problem? Because it affects us all no matter what you ride, who you ride with, or where you ride.. we are all in this together so we should ban together.
I hate rules just like everyone else. But i'd rather some guidelines and rules rather than letting THEM take away quads like they did 3wheelers. Remember that? Where was everyone on the crusade back then? I am not for CC limits on engine size, though. But I am for training. The problem is people think ATVs are a toy, they dont know how to operate it, they get hurt, they whine, they sue. Then CPSC jumps in on it and wants something done. But yes, ultimately, it is the riders' ignorance (whatever may cause it) that is responsible for 99.999% of the problems. To cut down of the ignorance, the "evil empire" of the national organizations are suggesting more training. Whats wrong with that? That seems like they are helping the cause suggesting the watchdogs look at something else and not the bikes as being the cause of the problems. Let me ask you this: If you were to fly in a plane, would you want that pilot to be qualified and have proper training before taking off? Or would just let him use his "common sense?"
Sincerely, all kidding and offences aside, what do you think should be done to fix the problem? Because it affects us all no matter what you ride, who you ride with, or where you ride.. we are all in this together so we should ban together.
#9
07-05-2003, 07:46 PM
NOHVCC Testifies at CPSC ATV Safety Hearing
You are right Twenty training is totally needed. But who can deal with the class room settings they put new riders in. Heres a real off the wall sugestion---may the training could be in the form of some type of formal Ride and Skills weekend. You buy a bike and through the factory...Maybe they offer you a day or weekend camp for some real training! OH HELL thats a stupid spout out but you guys and gals know what I mean. Its America the land of the free and the home of ..YOU CANT MAKE US DO THAT!
(slander of the slogan was not my aim folks so go easy on me...SORRY)
Rules are certain and needed.We know its not everyone but there are enough EF-ups to spoil all.
I think ya just gotta suck it up sometimes and look like a *** by self policeing your areas of riding preference and tell the idiots to use their heads.
Who knows Twenty? The safety issue is a whopper. Remember the three wheelers is maybe a good reference to throw at people. All I know for sure is "Dont take your eyes off the trail" some idiots trying ta kill us!!
YES working together is the only way cause JOHNNY LAW cant always be there to take the heat . Watch your trails and let people know you want ATVing to survive!
LATER...............DUG[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]
(slander of the slogan was not my aim folks so go easy on me...SORRY)
Rules are certain and needed.We know its not everyone but there are enough EF-ups to spoil all.
I think ya just gotta suck it up sometimes and look like a *** by self policeing your areas of riding preference and tell the idiots to use their heads.
Who knows Twenty? The safety issue is a whopper. Remember the three wheelers is maybe a good reference to throw at people. All I know for sure is "Dont take your eyes off the trail" some idiots trying ta kill us!!
YES working together is the only way cause JOHNNY LAW cant always be there to take the heat . Watch your trails and let people know you want ATVing to survive!
LATER...............DUG[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]
#10
07-06-2003, 12:30 PM
NOHVCC Testifies at CPSC ATV Safety Hearing
Originally posted by: twentycharacters
"....I guess what my question would be, then, is what do YOU think should be done about it?....."
What should be done about it is simple.
#1) Force these 'non-profit' organizations to spell out EXACTLY what our atv safety political platform consists of.........right down to setting the size, age and CC requirements that are inevitably going to upset some of their very own members enough that they probably won't renew their memberships.
#2) Don't give us all some petition to sign that forces THE GOVERNMENT to figure out was is "appropriate" or "fits" when it comes to these limits.
These national organizations held up "Utah" as a desirable program to train youths outside the CPSC consent agreement..................The way 'I' read their laws?.........no helmet required over the age of 18.......no child under the age of '8' can ride.......and there is absolutely no provision that your child must be supervised! Did they even bother and look at "Michigan" for an example?............a place where some of these GAPING HOLES are already filled and kids are training on quads 'over' 90 CC? How can your mission statement claim that adult supervision is the 'ideal'.............. and then point to a state where there is absolutely no regard for the concept?
#3) We are being told that THE GOVERNMENT should provide "more opportunities" for safety training.............so .......HOW MANY KIDS should 'they' have to train and how much is it going to cost ('us') per student? Do we partially subsidize all these kids or send big fat checks to atv trainers all over this country for the entire cost?
...."To cut down on the ignorance, the "evil empire" of the national organizations are suggesting more training. Whats wrong with that?....."
We have (and with current budget cuts; make that probably..... 'had') a program here in Michigan which subsidized the 'first' number of students every year who sought training; while all others were forced to pay upwards of $100/piece ($25 of that just to "attend" their child's class) when the grant money ran out.
Why is it that nobody wants to admit that the state or federal government............ PROBABLY ISN'T WILLING TO PAY FOR EVERY KID IN THIS COUNTRY TO GET TRAINED? Yet our national organizations approach them at the most important safety meeting in twenty years and claim that the word "opportunity" should impressive the CPSC enough.........without NUMBERS; no less!!!
....."That seems like they are helping the cause suggesting the watchdogs look at something else and not the bikes as being the cause of the problems....."
Nobody questions the value of having these guys point out that idiots (not machines) cause accidents ...............yet what the CPSC convened this meeting about was concerned with gathering SOLUTIONS...........and I'm sorry kids........but there are just about two paths we can go down:
#1) Either our sef-confessed "conservative" membership goes out and forces our own people to pay for training themselves.......... with a big fat fine included for non-compliance ('golly gee'.......have you ever heard anyone suggest THAT before..... or does conservatism only apply when govt. isn't FORCED to making us take care of ourselves and suggesting that we use 'our' pocketbooks to do it? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] )
"or"
(#2) You darn well tell the government EXACTLY what it's going to cost for these safety programs and who EXACTLY is goiong to be "left behind" each year when the number of fundable students is 'finite' (again, another subject that nobody seems willing to talk about) .
...."Sincerely, all kidding and offenses aside, what do you think should be done to fix the problem? Because it affects us all no matter what you ride, who you ride with, or where you ride.. we are all in this together so we should ban together......."
"....I guess what my question would be, then, is what do YOU think should be done about it?....."
What should be done about it is simple.
#1) Force these 'non-profit' organizations to spell out EXACTLY what our atv safety political platform consists of.........right down to setting the size, age and CC requirements that are inevitably going to upset some of their very own members enough that they probably won't renew their memberships.
#2) Don't give us all some petition to sign that forces THE GOVERNMENT to figure out was is "appropriate" or "fits" when it comes to these limits.
These national organizations held up "Utah" as a desirable program to train youths outside the CPSC consent agreement..................The way 'I' read their laws?.........no helmet required over the age of 18.......no child under the age of '8' can ride.......and there is absolutely no provision that your child must be supervised! Did they even bother and look at "Michigan" for an example?............a place where some of these GAPING HOLES are already filled and kids are training on quads 'over' 90 CC? How can your mission statement claim that adult supervision is the 'ideal'.............. and then point to a state where there is absolutely no regard for the concept?
#3) We are being told that THE GOVERNMENT should provide "more opportunities" for safety training.............so .......HOW MANY KIDS should 'they' have to train and how much is it going to cost ('us') per student? Do we partially subsidize all these kids or send big fat checks to atv trainers all over this country for the entire cost?
...."To cut down on the ignorance, the "evil empire" of the national organizations are suggesting more training. Whats wrong with that?....."
We have (and with current budget cuts; make that probably..... 'had') a program here in Michigan which subsidized the 'first' number of students every year who sought training; while all others were forced to pay upwards of $100/piece ($25 of that just to "attend" their child's class) when the grant money ran out.
Why is it that nobody wants to admit that the state or federal government............ PROBABLY ISN'T WILLING TO PAY FOR EVERY KID IN THIS COUNTRY TO GET TRAINED? Yet our national organizations approach them at the most important safety meeting in twenty years and claim that the word "opportunity" should impressive the CPSC enough.........without NUMBERS; no less!!!
....."That seems like they are helping the cause suggesting the watchdogs look at something else and not the bikes as being the cause of the problems....."
Nobody questions the value of having these guys point out that idiots (not machines) cause accidents ...............yet what the CPSC convened this meeting about was concerned with gathering SOLUTIONS...........and I'm sorry kids........but there are just about two paths we can go down:
#1) Either our sef-confessed "conservative" membership goes out and forces our own people to pay for training themselves.......... with a big fat fine included for non-compliance ('golly gee'.......have you ever heard anyone suggest THAT before..... or does conservatism only apply when govt. isn't FORCED to making us take care of ourselves and suggesting that we use 'our' pocketbooks to do it? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] )
"or"
(#2) You darn well tell the government EXACTLY what it's going to cost for these safety programs and who EXACTLY is goiong to be "left behind" each year when the number of fundable students is 'finite' (again, another subject that nobody seems willing to talk about) .
...."Sincerely, all kidding and offenses aside, what do you think should be done to fix the problem? Because it affects us all no matter what you ride, who you ride with, or where you ride.. we are all in this together so we should ban together......."
I'd especially like to hear from some of you (supposed) 'die hard'...... "get the government out of our lives " CONSERVATIVES !!!
Here is the typical person on these atv forums:
"As soon as THE GOVERNMENT gets off our butt and starts PAYING (us) for kids to take safety classes........all of our problems will be solved..........should we require ATVERS to get their own training, pay for it AND PAY STIFF CONSEQUENCES for non-compliance?.......why, he11 NO!!!!.........the GOVERNMENT is the one blocking us from getting this done!!!....."
Can you say, "hypocrite".......................[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]