How many of you are....
#2
08-25-2003, 09:44 AM
How many of you are....
Signed up after meeting a member of their administration out on the trail down at the first H/M TrailFest.
I then stopped my dues payment when I learned that some of the administration "believed" in helmet use.......but evidently did not have any autonomous authority beyond the bosom of their parent organization (the American Motorcycle Assoc.) to promote their use.
I have a hard time with somebody telling me that he keeps a hundred dollar bill in his wallet for anybody who catches him riding without a helmet...........but who then turns around and claims that helmet use "isn't a big enough issue" in our sport (and you think the word "helmet" was just mistakenly left out of our nationwide petition to the Consumer Product SAFETY Commission?).
You either believe in something or you don't........... and for our sport to be the "lapdog" of the motorcyclists on this issue is pretty gutless in my view and....... (mark my words) will come up and bite us in the arsse someday from some anti-atv group who is smart enough to see the hipocrisy here.
What do you do when some anti-atv guy comes up and asks you about the ATVA and "helmets"?..........start lowering your voice and mumbling incoherently?.......... or tell them about "the guy in the ATVA" who carries "the hundred dollar bill" around?(that'll impress 'em).
I would just as soon be proud of who I associate myself with when it comes to something as BASIC as "helmet use" and would certainly wish that more people would push them to take a stand on this (and again, they won't do this........ just as long as the AMA continues to restrict their policy-making).
Not saying that they shouldn't be supported...........just unhappy that they would dare ask us to "compromise" on this issue.
How is this any different than the same cowardly manner in which they didn't have the guts to go "zero-tolerance" when their motorcycle membership complains about the state helmet-use laws?. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
I then stopped my dues payment when I learned that some of the administration "believed" in helmet use.......but evidently did not have any autonomous authority beyond the bosom of their parent organization (the American Motorcycle Assoc.) to promote their use.
I have a hard time with somebody telling me that he keeps a hundred dollar bill in his wallet for anybody who catches him riding without a helmet...........but who then turns around and claims that helmet use "isn't a big enough issue" in our sport (and you think the word "helmet" was just mistakenly left out of our nationwide petition to the Consumer Product SAFETY Commission?).
You either believe in something or you don't........... and for our sport to be the "lapdog" of the motorcyclists on this issue is pretty gutless in my view and....... (mark my words) will come up and bite us in the arsse someday from some anti-atv group who is smart enough to see the hipocrisy here.
What do you do when some anti-atv guy comes up and asks you about the ATVA and "helmets"?..........start lowering your voice and mumbling incoherently?.......... or tell them about "the guy in the ATVA" who carries "the hundred dollar bill" around?(that'll impress 'em).
I would just as soon be proud of who I associate myself with when it comes to something as BASIC as "helmet use" and would certainly wish that more people would push them to take a stand on this (and again, they won't do this........ just as long as the AMA continues to restrict their policy-making).
Not saying that they shouldn't be supported...........just unhappy that they would dare ask us to "compromise" on this issue.
How is this any different than the same cowardly manner in which they didn't have the guts to go "zero-tolerance" when their motorcycle membership complains about the state helmet-use laws?. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
#3
08-26-2003, 06:15 AM
How many of you are....
Hey RookW.Va., how's it goin'?I spoke w/ ATVA member services today and then joined,having been inspired to do it by the research I did in response to your post here.Thank you very much.I put off a lot of memberships and subscriptions because of the costs that add up in a year.Magazines,etc.,whew!They add up!BTW,e-mail me to go riding-I'll be back down there soon;but not here in the forums.
A call to action,friends,not more idle talk.Debate is great,but when is it time to drop the internet addiction,put your brain back in its box and act?
Here's some better info. I encourage those interested to visit the ATVAONLINE.COM site, and to access these type organizations for finding ways to help directly.And you can ask me, even little ol' me - I'm at Cliffy2e@Yahoo.com - for links and other helpful information resources.
On a side note, I doubt very much a return to AtvConnection.com forums.I simply can't withstand the barbaric assaults.It's overwhelming.A few of us are, well; reference the above for a CLUE.
Here's a wonderful clue; in the catagory of: 'mother of all clues!' Go To: http://capwiz.com/amacycle/home
under attack…again
Aug. 20 – Anti-ATV forces are at it again.
They've renewed their call for federal officials to issue national safety regulations regarding children riding ATVs.
In a just-released report, the Consumer Federation of America, Natural Trails and Waters Coalition, and the Bluewater Network called on the federal Consumer Product Safety Commission to issue a national rule barring the sale of full-sized ATVs for use by children under age 16.
The Coalition originally called for a ban on all quad use by those under 16, but the commission said it didn't have the authority to enforce such a ban.
Royce Wood, ATVA legislative affairs specialist, notes that the anti-ATV forces are stepping up their attacks not only at the federal level, but at the state and local levels as well. He pointed out that "to fight these battles effectively, we need enthusiasts like you backing us up.
"We need to be able to tell the politicians who want to restrict your right to ride that we represent thousands of enthusiasts nationwide, and in their state, and we're not going to take it," Wood said.
"I need you to get a friend to join the ATVA to give us the clout we need to fight these battles from Washington, D.C., all the way down to your local township council," he said.
Concerned enthusiasts like you signed a petition that ATVA Legislative Assistant Peter Nonis hand delivered to the Consumer Product Safety Commission in Washington, D.C.(left), Wood said. That petition, with more than 5,000 signatures gathered in just a few weeks, showed the Consumer Product Safety Commission that we're very serious about our sport, he said, and we're very serious about protecting our right to ride.
He also noted that ATV opponents made some outrageous suggestions to the Consumer Product Safety Commission during a hearing on ATV safety held in Morgantown, W. Va., on June 5. Rollbars, seatbelts, governors to limit speed, a 399cc maximum limit on the size of ATV motors, and a ban on kid-sized ATVs of 90cc and less were just some of the proposals.
We don't know what will happen next with the Consumer Product Safety Commission, Wood said. But the last time the commission held hearings on ATV safety, back in 1985, three-wheelers were banned. This year, the commission continues to hold hearings on ATVs. Hearings were held in Alaska shortly after the West Virginia hearing, and at least one more hearing is to be held in New Mexico.
And attacks are happening elsewhere.
Wood noted that Terry Lee Cook of the Government Relations Department recently went to East Peoria, Ill., to organize ATV riders to fight the city's ban on quads.
That's right. East Peoria has a law on the books: You can't ride your own ATV on your own property!
Plus, Wood said, Guy Harden, a very active ATV rider and political activist in Kentucky, tells the ATVA that state lawmakers are looking at placing major restrictions on ATVs there, including banning anyone under the age of 16 from riding them.
In Michigan, the governor recently tried to eliminate the ATV rider safety training program completely, even though it's paid for by funds that we riders pay ourselves through vehicle registration fees. New York years ago abolished its trails fund, but continues to collect money from ATV and off-highway motorcycle registration fees that before went into the fund. Now, the state keeps the money for its general treasury, to the tune of more than $7 million since 1986.
"When we testify before federal commissioners and state lawmakers one of the first questions they ask us is: `How many people does the ATVA represent?'" Wood said. "They want to know whether to take us seriously. After all, if we represent thousands of members nationwide, and hundreds or thousands of members in their particular states, then they know they need to listen.
"Numbers translate into political clout. And that's why we need your help," he said.
"When we go to Congress, or statehouses, or even township council meetings, we need to show the decision-makers that we represent a very large group of politically aware enthusiasts," Wood said. "People who don't want to lose their ATVs, and don't want restrictions on their rights to ride. We need you to ask a friend to join the ATVA, so that together we can all defend ATVing."
Have a friend call toll-free (866) ATVA-JOIN to join the ATVA, or sign up online.
The future of ATV riding depends on it.
If you don't believe ATVs could be outlawed, look at East Peoria. The crisis is now.
© 2003, All Terrain Vehicle Association
A call to action,friends,not more idle talk.Debate is great,but when is it time to drop the internet addiction,put your brain back in its box and act?
Here's some better info. I encourage those interested to visit the ATVAONLINE.COM site, and to access these type organizations for finding ways to help directly.And you can ask me, even little ol' me - I'm at Cliffy2e@Yahoo.com - for links and other helpful information resources.
On a side note, I doubt very much a return to AtvConnection.com forums.I simply can't withstand the barbaric assaults.It's overwhelming.A few of us are, well; reference the above for a CLUE.
Here's a wonderful clue; in the catagory of: 'mother of all clues!' Go To: http://capwiz.com/amacycle/home
under attack…again
Aug. 20 – Anti-ATV forces are at it again.
They've renewed their call for federal officials to issue national safety regulations regarding children riding ATVs.
In a just-released report, the Consumer Federation of America, Natural Trails and Waters Coalition, and the Bluewater Network called on the federal Consumer Product Safety Commission to issue a national rule barring the sale of full-sized ATVs for use by children under age 16.
The Coalition originally called for a ban on all quad use by those under 16, but the commission said it didn't have the authority to enforce such a ban.
Royce Wood, ATVA legislative affairs specialist, notes that the anti-ATV forces are stepping up their attacks not only at the federal level, but at the state and local levels as well. He pointed out that "to fight these battles effectively, we need enthusiasts like you backing us up.
"We need to be able to tell the politicians who want to restrict your right to ride that we represent thousands of enthusiasts nationwide, and in their state, and we're not going to take it," Wood said.
"I need you to get a friend to join the ATVA to give us the clout we need to fight these battles from Washington, D.C., all the way down to your local township council," he said.
Concerned enthusiasts like you signed a petition that ATVA Legislative Assistant Peter Nonis hand delivered to the Consumer Product Safety Commission in Washington, D.C.(left), Wood said. That petition, with more than 5,000 signatures gathered in just a few weeks, showed the Consumer Product Safety Commission that we're very serious about our sport, he said, and we're very serious about protecting our right to ride.
He also noted that ATV opponents made some outrageous suggestions to the Consumer Product Safety Commission during a hearing on ATV safety held in Morgantown, W. Va., on June 5. Rollbars, seatbelts, governors to limit speed, a 399cc maximum limit on the size of ATV motors, and a ban on kid-sized ATVs of 90cc and less were just some of the proposals.
We don't know what will happen next with the Consumer Product Safety Commission, Wood said. But the last time the commission held hearings on ATV safety, back in 1985, three-wheelers were banned. This year, the commission continues to hold hearings on ATVs. Hearings were held in Alaska shortly after the West Virginia hearing, and at least one more hearing is to be held in New Mexico.
And attacks are happening elsewhere.
Wood noted that Terry Lee Cook of the Government Relations Department recently went to East Peoria, Ill., to organize ATV riders to fight the city's ban on quads.
That's right. East Peoria has a law on the books: You can't ride your own ATV on your own property!
Plus, Wood said, Guy Harden, a very active ATV rider and political activist in Kentucky, tells the ATVA that state lawmakers are looking at placing major restrictions on ATVs there, including banning anyone under the age of 16 from riding them.
In Michigan, the governor recently tried to eliminate the ATV rider safety training program completely, even though it's paid for by funds that we riders pay ourselves through vehicle registration fees. New York years ago abolished its trails fund, but continues to collect money from ATV and off-highway motorcycle registration fees that before went into the fund. Now, the state keeps the money for its general treasury, to the tune of more than $7 million since 1986.
"When we testify before federal commissioners and state lawmakers one of the first questions they ask us is: `How many people does the ATVA represent?'" Wood said. "They want to know whether to take us seriously. After all, if we represent thousands of members nationwide, and hundreds or thousands of members in their particular states, then they know they need to listen.
"Numbers translate into political clout. And that's why we need your help," he said.
"When we go to Congress, or statehouses, or even township council meetings, we need to show the decision-makers that we represent a very large group of politically aware enthusiasts," Wood said. "People who don't want to lose their ATVs, and don't want restrictions on their rights to ride. We need you to ask a friend to join the ATVA, so that together we can all defend ATVing."
Have a friend call toll-free (866) ATVA-JOIN to join the ATVA, or sign up online.
The future of ATV riding depends on it.
If you don't believe ATVs could be outlawed, look at East Peoria. The crisis is now.
© 2003, All Terrain Vehicle Association
#4
08-26-2003, 09:03 AM
How many of you are....
[quote]
Originally posted by: Tuckahoe
"I'll be back down there soon;but not here in the forums......A call to action,friends,not more idle talk......On a side note, I doubt very much a return to AtvConnection.com forums.........I simply can't withstand the barbaric assaults.It's overwhelming.A few of us are, well; reference the above for a CLUE.............
Why would you 'turn tail and run' from these forums when the members on here are simply questioning why your organization (the AMA) does not believe that the HELMET ISSUE isn't one of the biggest "crisis" issues that this sport faces today?
Why would you put up with "atv" enthusiasts being kicked off of "non-motorcycle" forums (see Damocles/Tree Farmer.....another "AMA's the only way" member) when they simply question why the ATVA (AMA) does NOT have the guts to tell the Consumer Product SAFETY Commission that ****"atvers"**** BELIEVE IN HELMET USE FOR EVERYBODY.
Do you really believe that you were "barbarically attacked" by us atvers(?).......... and that the whole experience was just so "overwhelming" that you had to get back within the cozy confines of the AMA 'fold'?
WE (ATVERS) BELIEVE IN HELMET USE............"get over it" and go back and tell the AMA that ***atvers*** are not beholden to any group who can't stick up for what saves lives (not if "membership money" from even the "fringe" riders of either group is on the line. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] ).
I am sick and tired of arrogant and pretentious AMA members coming into our atv community and claiming that we are somehow BARBARIC if we don't like the fact that they are GUTLESS when it comes to helmet use. Again, one of their (supposely "our") leaders likes to tell the story of how he carries "a 'marked' hundred dollar bill" around in his pocket for anyone who catches him riding "without a helmet".........who the hell cares?...........as soon as the people who actually REGULATE SAFETY (can you say CPSC?) start coming around and asking us about what we're doingin regards to it?..........we send them a 'petition' which mentions absolutely nothing about what THE MOTORCYCLISTS don't fundamentally believe in beyond the confines of a racetrack.
I did the same thing as yourself, Tuckahoe and joined the ATVA.........let's just make sure that they EARN any future money from us (at least from me) by standing up for issues that anti-atvers can't attack them on for having an "achilles heel" in regards to.
And quit "running away" when a fellow atver disagrees with you...........when somebody brings up the helmet issue in regards to the AMA (ATVA)...........what kind of message do you think it sends out to us about your group.......THAT THE AMA (ATVA) WON'T DISCUSS IT AND TO JUST....."SEND IN YOUR MONEY LIKE 'GOOD' LITTLE ATVERS"?!!
I want leaders who aren't afraid to strap a set on and go after some of the idiots "in my sport" who are ruining it for the rest of "us", TODAY..........not people who get "overwhelmed' easily and will compromise their ideals for an increase in "membership' from the lowest common denominator that can write a check and lick a stamp.
We don't NEED these riders who don't "like" helmets...........we should also put enormous amounts of pressure on any organization who caters to this way of thinking.
Guaranteed........if we don't prop these organizations up and give them some kind of "spine" on helmet use?.........these anti-atv groups WILL HAVE THEM FOR LUNCH over the very same issue. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
Then again, I guess we can just witness yet another AMA member turn tail and run away from this conversation; as we hear him hollering back at us.................."make sure you send us in that membership money!".
Originally posted by: Tuckahoe
"I'll be back down there soon;but not here in the forums......A call to action,friends,not more idle talk......On a side note, I doubt very much a return to AtvConnection.com forums.........I simply can't withstand the barbaric assaults.It's overwhelming.A few of us are, well; reference the above for a CLUE.............
Why would you 'turn tail and run' from these forums when the members on here are simply questioning why your organization (the AMA) does not believe that the HELMET ISSUE isn't one of the biggest "crisis" issues that this sport faces today?
Why would you put up with "atv" enthusiasts being kicked off of "non-motorcycle" forums (see Damocles/Tree Farmer.....another "AMA's the only way" member) when they simply question why the ATVA (AMA) does NOT have the guts to tell the Consumer Product SAFETY Commission that ****"atvers"**** BELIEVE IN HELMET USE FOR EVERYBODY.
Do you really believe that you were "barbarically attacked" by us atvers(?).......... and that the whole experience was just so "overwhelming" that you had to get back within the cozy confines of the AMA 'fold'?
WE (ATVERS) BELIEVE IN HELMET USE............"get over it" and go back and tell the AMA that ***atvers*** are not beholden to any group who can't stick up for what saves lives (not if "membership money" from even the "fringe" riders of either group is on the line. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] ).
I am sick and tired of arrogant and pretentious AMA members coming into our atv community and claiming that we are somehow BARBARIC if we don't like the fact that they are GUTLESS when it comes to helmet use. Again, one of their (supposely "our") leaders likes to tell the story of how he carries "a 'marked' hundred dollar bill" around in his pocket for anyone who catches him riding "without a helmet".........who the hell cares?...........as soon as the people who actually REGULATE SAFETY (can you say CPSC?) start coming around and asking us about what we're doingin regards to it?..........we send them a 'petition' which mentions absolutely nothing about what THE MOTORCYCLISTS don't fundamentally believe in beyond the confines of a racetrack.
I did the same thing as yourself, Tuckahoe and joined the ATVA.........let's just make sure that they EARN any future money from us (at least from me) by standing up for issues that anti-atvers can't attack them on for having an "achilles heel" in regards to.
And quit "running away" when a fellow atver disagrees with you...........when somebody brings up the helmet issue in regards to the AMA (ATVA)...........what kind of message do you think it sends out to us about your group.......THAT THE AMA (ATVA) WON'T DISCUSS IT AND TO JUST....."SEND IN YOUR MONEY LIKE 'GOOD' LITTLE ATVERS"?!!
I want leaders who aren't afraid to strap a set on and go after some of the idiots "in my sport" who are ruining it for the rest of "us", TODAY..........not people who get "overwhelmed' easily and will compromise their ideals for an increase in "membership' from the lowest common denominator that can write a check and lick a stamp.
We don't NEED these riders who don't "like" helmets...........we should also put enormous amounts of pressure on any organization who caters to this way of thinking.
Guaranteed........if we don't prop these organizations up and give them some kind of "spine" on helmet use?.........these anti-atv groups WILL HAVE THEM FOR LUNCH over the very same issue. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
Then again, I guess we can just witness yet another AMA member turn tail and run away from this conversation; as we hear him hollering back at us.................."make sure you send us in that membership money!".
#5
08-28-2003, 03:37 PM
How many of you are....
Blackballed I can see why you use that name.Sometimes you push your opinions too far and you will get the reverse effect.Alot of people out here are just tired of reading your crap.I am sure you will pick apart what I am putting in here but you need to get a grip and stop thinking you know everything.Most of the time when you post something I just go right past it and ignore what you have said.Get off your pedistool.We are tired of hearing you.
#6
08-28-2003, 06:36 PM
How many of you are....
Originally posted by: vhcat400i
Blackballed I can see why you use that name.Sometimes you push your opinions too far and you will get the reverse effect.Alot of people out here are just tired of reading your crap.I am sure you will pick apart what I am putting in here but you need to get a grip and stop thinking you know everything.Most of the time when you post something I just go right past it and ignore what you have said.Get off your pedistool.We are tired of hearing you.
Blackballed I can see why you use that name.Sometimes you push your opinions too far and you will get the reverse effect.Alot of people out here are just tired of reading your crap.I am sure you will pick apart what I am putting in here but you need to get a grip and stop thinking you know everything.Most of the time when you post something I just go right past it and ignore what you have said.Get off your pedistool.We are tired of hearing you.
I'd probably have some inkling of respect for your opinion of me if you had enough intelligence to rebut even 'one' of the facts presented here...........can you manage to join the debate and not just throw rocks at those engaged in it?
There are very few "kids" on here who think that verbally attacking someone without reference to the topic at hand; somehow adds to these conversations............I am very sorry that you can't model anything more mature for these young people with public speaking problems at such a formative age.... or that struggling with puberty 'yourself', may be quite a challenge for you at this time. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
#7
08-28-2003, 06:46 PM
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#8
08-28-2003, 06:51 PM
How many of you are....
Originally posted by: warrior007
can you post again without quoting the entire thread so we can figure out what your trying to say??.. or even what the issue is and which side your on?
can you post again without quoting the entire thread so we can figure out what your trying to say??.. or even what the issue is and which side your on?
#9
08-28-2003, 07:00 PM
#10
08-28-2003, 07:45 PM
How many of you are....
I believe he is trying to say they don't really care if you do or you don't as long as you are giving them money.He also believes that everyone who is tired of him or doesnt agree with him is a teenie bopper.He is just a poor lonely person that doesn't have a life so he has to pick apart others to make himself feel important.It is pretty sad actually.Thats all I have to say,see ya.