Minnesota riders are facing increasing restrictions on access to public trails, and even roadside ditches. Check out this article from the front page of the St. Paul Pioneer Press: http://www.twincities.com/mld/twinci...s/10695210.htm

When you see things like this happening, you have to start thinking that we're seeing ATV riding on public land being gradually phased out. The Minnesota ATV group has a counter proposal to the measures being advocated by ATV critics, but it's too little too late. For so many years, ATV'ers have relied on the "few bad apples" defense. That was probably always lame. I suspect that the percentage of bad applies may not have changed, but the explosion in ATV registrations probably means there are more of them in shear numbers. We'll never live down the damage they are doing far and wide.

Hate to be so pessimistic, but that's how I see it.

 

thank you deep it is nice to see that people from other states are noticing the challenges we are going through right now i know when i first put up my post on here "mn dnr does it again" i got private messages and stuff from people who didn't think it was true but i am glad to see everyone ban together for the common good for what everyone one of us believe in i wish i could find a couple of articles from the local newspapers about them closing down alot of trails in beltrami state forrest in minnesota but all of the articles i found was the reporters interviewing the dnr so of corse they were giving this mumbo jumbo how there was so many miles of trails there that they didn't have any right in the first place to put trails through and they worded it so nicely that it will make someone who isn't from here be on there side but listen to our side

 

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]Blue Ribbon Coalition enough said

 

Weez, I think you took my comments all wrong... and if there is anyone more involved in fighting for ATV access around, I'd sure like to meet them. Ask around....

It is sad that the DNR and locals are having a tiff... The losers are not only ATV enthusiasts, but the lost recreational dollars that could be spent in your state instead of filling the pockets of your neighbors to the east. Dollars for gas, food, suveniers, hotels etc.. all are being spent outside MN by MN residents... when they could be kept at home by taking a realistic approach to whole program, instead of some knee jerk reaction.

All you have to do is look to West Virginia, and the partnership between the local governments and the trail management to see how ATV's, and recreational riding basically saved the economy in their state. MN is no different...

MN is not what most would consider to be a heavy industrial state... oh yes they have some, but not of the scale that many others have... Their economy runs on recreation... perhaps someone needs to let the locals know that fishing isn't the biggest catch in the sea these days....

I sure hope they wake up to that fact.

As for our discussions, both online and off... well.. make sure you fully understand what was said...

 

I thought by voting for bush this couldnt happen. I was under the impression that it was kerry who was out to ban atvs.
Did I vote for the wrong guy? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

i am gonna try to not get into politics but do you think bush as our president cares about this with so much more going on in the world? and i appologize draggin you have been listening and at one point said that if it was true what i said which looking from your point of view if someone said what i was saying i would be skepitcle to. (don't think i spelled that right) but in this area we are very heavily industrialized and fishing and hunting is 2 very big parts of life here but my parents have a cabin in canada for i live only 6 miles from canada and you know what i am now done fishing in minnesota from now on it is all canadian fishing. it is very negative i know but the portion of that money for a fishing license goes towards the dnr of minnesota and i don't want them getting that money from me anymore i know alot of people who don't buy any license for their atv's and snowmobiles for this reason saying well if i get caught i will pay the fine but i wanna screw over the dnr. why is it so hard for them to actually work with the people and spend a lil money for a change on the habitat instead of making up crazy laws and upsetting people. i haven't gotten time to read that blue ribbon coalition but i will soon and i will be joining and once again draggin i appologize i do appreciate everything you represent and are trying to do

 

No offense taken... I am concerned however with the comments about walking across the border and turning your back on MN DNR's issues with the locals. That is the 'leave it to somebody else to fix' argument that is at the root of many of the problems we as ATV enthusiasts are facing right now. YOU may think that your opinion may not be worth much, but believe me, one person CAN make a difference. Couple that with another person, and they involve another person or two.. all of a sudden you have a grassroots movement... and a much larger voice. Local politicians will listen when they find out several hundred voters are upset with their antics... If not, vote them out of office. Get local businessmen that are being hurt by the lost income... when business leaders get involved, that represnts the local tax base, and politicians have to listen to that.

You have taken the first step, you have come here and made people aware. Instead of fighting both sides, you should be taking them to task for not sitting down and hammering out a compromise. That is what their number one job is... working together to meet the needs of their citizens, and following the will of the people they represent. If all they hear are the complaints about ATV's, then it sounds like they are doing their jobs.. You got to let them know there is another side to this story.. and if they won't listen, they will find themselves outside looking in.

Bottom line, don't complain if you are not willing to get your hands dirty and get involved... We need people from all over this nation to stand up and be counted. It starts with me and you....

 

The radical tree huggers don't get all the media space in Minnesota. There are some voices of reason and logic. ATV'ers will enjoy reading this. http://www.twincities.com/mld/twinci...y/10704955.htm
Joe's reference to cylinders concerns the cylinder index he touts on his daily radio show, Garage Logic. You total up all the cylinders in your vehicles and toys, and that's your cylinder index. Joe has a standard, and I think it is that your cylinder index should equal your age. With two ATV's, three snowmobiles, two vehicles, an outboard boad motor, two chain saws, two lawn mowers a pressure washer and a weed wacker, mine is only 28. Sad to say, I'm a lot older than that, so I feel somewhat deprived.

Anyway, Dragginbutt. I think your view of Minnesota economy running on recreation may be way off. I read once that the Twin Cities has more top 100 corporation headquarters than any other metro area--Pillsbury, General Mills, Medtronic, Cargill come to mind. Lots of other mid caps and high techs are headquartered there also. And, of course Arctic Cat and Polaris are also Minnesota companies, along with Genmar, the world's largest boat maker. Minnesota is also a big agriculture state.

If recreation were a bigger part of the economy, maybe there would not be such a big push to restrict ATV riding. The sad thing is that Minnesota has such a massive amount of public land, it could be an AVT Meca if the politicians and the DNR could get their act together.

And weez44, recreation-based businesses are hurting in WI too. People around here tend to spend most of their fishing dollars in Canada. I'm doing a fly-in to Canada next summer, which will cost me more that I've spent around here over the past three years. The scenery is not much different, but I'll catch fish.

 

as for industry we also have digi key, marvin windows, and central boiler which combined employs about 6000 people (roughly) then between polaris and arctic cat that is another 5500 (roughly)and that is within two very small counties so we are very very industrialized up here we get paid good wages and we have one of the lowest unemployement rates in the united states right here where i live. but everyone working we need a getaway and it seems like they are trying to take it away from us. don't get me wrong draggin i am not gonna give up on this fight the same lake my parents cabin is on in canada is the same lake i can fish on in the minnesota side as well but would require canadian license for manitoba and american for minnesota side. the fact of the matter is the dnr has finally gone way to far. first before deer season they started cracking down on people who have permanent deer stands on state lands. they went around and put tags on all the stands and punched them in on the gps and during season they had an airplane fly overhead and if anyone was sitting in that stand they got fined. i have a relative that had a bowhunting stand and one of those game trackers up for the night came back like a week later the dnr took them cause it was considered to be permanent for it has to be taken down each and every night. what they want is for all of northern minnesota to be one huge wildlife sanctuary thats no secret they are starting to slowly get there way to by making people so frustrated with these silly laws they won't want anything to do with the outdoors anymore cause it will be to much of a hastle. and i was upset in the heat of the moment i love doing my catfishing on this certain river in minnesota so i will have to end up buying an american license anyways but it is very frustrating. our state representative is from this are and her husband is an engineer at polaris or something i know he has a good job been there for years so she is deffinately on our side

 

It's not that I do not recognise the industies in MN, and their contribution to the state's economy.. but they tend to be very centralized in pockets.
And even though they do represent a significant revenue stream, I think it safe to say that if the recreational dollars were to end today, the economies in both MN and WI would collapse. But that could be said about many states... so the point is moot I guess.

My point was that MN and WI both NEED those dollars, and they do base a majority of their economies around the recreational dollars being spent. It logically leads one to assume the local politicians would be aware of that, and would be working hard to resolve any conflicts that may be counter to the health and well being of that industry.

Remember too that the effects are felt in ruduced income for gas stations, restaurants, hotels etc and their suppliers... It has far reaching effect on local economies. That point should be driven home.. it isn't just an ATV access issue...

Trees and habitat are nice things to look at and enjoy, and are great resources... but if people are driven elswhere because of failing economies, who will be left to enjoy them in the end?

I have heard the overfishing argument for years. Not sure what the answer is on that.. but I also remember Canada has struggled with the same issues for many years as well. And it forced many changes in their recreational fishing industry as well.

Gone are the days when a person could catch 30 to 50 fish.. mainly pike or walleye... and get their picture in the local media... I can remember when all you had to do was row your boat out in the middle of a lake, and the fish practically jumped into your boat. With the advent of electronics, the fish do not stand a chance of surviving. Gone is the skill and luck factor... But I don't see anyone wanting to ban electronics... at least not with the same level of mirth that ATV's are feeling right now.