I agree with that assessment fully Deeplaker... The only way that we are goin gto be able to hold our own is to band together and act responsibly. That not only entails riding "Legal" trails, and helping maintain them (YEAH, ASK YOURSELF IF THE SPORT IS WORTH YOU VOLUNTEERING A WEEKEND OR TWO LIKE DEEPLAKER AND FRIENDS) and it means we have to police ourselves. Working WITH the DNR in most cases is a positive step.

Also, Modquad I feel your pain on the 2 versus 4 wheel issues... I think you have a good feel for what needs to be done... perhaps by joining and becoming involved in the planning etc of 2 wheel events, you can help diversify their offerings. The secret is involvement... and getting your buddies to join in as well.

This is not a time where division will serve either of our efforts.

 

So many people seem to believe the problem is "just a couple of bad apples." There will always be bad apples, that's a given. There always have been, in every pursuit, even religion. So its a moot point.

What we need to look at is the fact that there is extensive damage, and if we don't get a handle on that, regulations will get more an more restrictive, there will be fewer and fewer places to ride, and eventually people wanting to outlaw ATV's could prevail.

Better enforcement of current regulations would probably help, as would being pro-active and pushing for regulations that will reduce damages, and that we can live with. Trail design and maintenance would also be factors.

I think there are also psycological factors. If you own a machine that will take you anywhere, you'll want to go everywhere. I'll admit to that. I really like the idea of not needing a trail. And, that might have been OK where there were only a few ATV'ers riding around the woods. But, when you have 830,000 people riding ATV's in Minnesota alone, the landscape can get torn up fast.

We've got to find effective solutions, and passing off the problem as just "a few bad applies" will not make it go away.

 

Exactly... a few very forward thinking persons like yourself ARE getting involved with trail maintenence.. and are concerned with building trails smarter, so that they CAN handle the increased numbers of riding. Our roads in VA are a very good example of no matter how well they design them, they wear out by constant pressure of litterally millions of road miles being driven on them. They design for what they feel is realistic in 10 years, and those miles are compressed into two... The same goes for our trails. We MUST do a better job of building our trails, and maintaining them. The DNR is not funded, or equipped to perform this vital function.. and it falls on you and me to pick up the slack...

 

My "bad apples" reference was simply referring to the BS media attacking us ATV riders as if we all act that way. I'm not using that as a cop out.

Of course our local clubs participate in trail maint., I do my part when I'm out and about riding. Obviously those that choose to be a member here and other clubs are trying to contribute. We are banning together, whos' dividing? We have Polaris and Arctic Cat here in MN help fight as well. This state has a lot legislation and a lot of market persuasion. Yet we still lack trails, or people lack the knowledge of using them.

Deep Laker, Where do you get your data on 830,000 people riding in MN?

Is there really 600,000 non registered machines? MN DNR Registration Data

 

I got that 830,000 number from one of the newspaper articles. I think it was the Star-Trib that came up with that number from a survey they did. They are probably saying there are a lot of people that don't own an ATV, but still ride them. That's good for us. So, let friends try out your ATV. Then, if they are surveyed and one of the question is, "Have you ever ridden an ATV," they can answer "Yes." The bigger our numbers, to more weight we carry politically and economically.

 

Do the numbers reflect the people from out of state that may use the trails on multiple occasions each year? I suspect there are a lot of Illinois and Iowa citizens that regularly use what ever trail system they can get to on several occasions each year. I know I would. When I was back in Wisconsin last summer surveying my 9 acres in Monroe county, I lost count of how many quads on trailers I saw on I-90 when I reached over 200. That says a lot about the sheer numbers of enthusiasts using what limited resources you currently have in the inventory. I am not as up on teh MN trails, but WI sure has a lot of areas available for use.

I almost bought me another piece of land this past week that the trail system crosses to put up a resort/camp ground catering to ATV riding... still thinking about it... but Mrs DB wants to move to Florida to be closer to our new grandchild... Dern woman...the things we do for love... Then there is that part that I just spent 30 Grand on a new business and trailer that I will be setting up when I get there.... Yep, there is that too....

 

Yeah thats fine if they use those numbers, but as long as the data they collect is correct and not Michael Moore style[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

I'd imagine we have a lot of out of state riders, much like WI and MI. I see non residents not respecting local laws and trails, quite commonly. Its very unfortunate. I've heard people talk with the attitude, I'm here for one weekend and I pay $20 to ride these trails, I'm going to rip them up or whatever I want to have a good time. Yep, they're out there.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

DB so you're moving to WI? I have rode there a few times, sledding and quadding, in fact my cabin is a mile away from WI border in the Nemadji State forest. At the time I dont' have to worry about issues in that area, its way under occupied for riders with a vast amount of trails. But I still choose to get involved if I can.

 

Uh, Dragginbutt, I've been an off and on ATVAM memeber. I "donate" tons of miles, substantial camera gear wear, and dirt cheap pic files to the cause. A few years back I politely and professionally suggested the same path (questioning what's in this for 4x2's).....received quite the scolding letter back from the then ATVAM president. Totally unprofessional, and a blatant attack. I understand the constant battle, and always having to "be on-guard", but when a member has a valid suggestion, an organization needs to listen.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a high school level "popularity contest" within some ranks, that is sad. I very much enjoy the members who refrain from that behavior, and make the grass roots of the organization what it is. Those who truly love to ride/race ATVs normally don't care what their political position is...yes, we need ranks, but they are a title, no a status elevation.

By coming back down to the earth we ride on, we can elevate ourselves to easily handle the environmental extremists. True colors will eventually shine through.

Please don't even try to begin "lecturing me" on times to work together, or lines of division. I fight a constant battle with dirt bikes, and snowmobilers.....constantly trying to maintain dialogue.

 

That's unfortunate... can't really argue that.. not intending to any way... sounds like you have tried and had a few doors slammed on your toes... Sorry to hear that....

Please don't take my comments as a personal lecture... that was not the intent.... I do however feel that the only way to combat the frustration you are feeling, it does take a group voice.. the more the better. I also am looking at the big picture here.. not focused on 2 wheel versus 4 wheel.. track versus trail riding etc... We are in a struggle to keep ATV's in general.... and open access to the many riding areas that exist today. This is not a subject that is isolated in MN... it is all across the nation.

I applaud your attempts to be involved... it didn't work in your case... but what did you do about it afterwards? Did you try to put together an organization that is focused on your riding choices? Chances are you ride with a group that thinks much like you do...

I guess without sounding like a lecture... I just want to provide encouragement to keep your involvement going and hopefully convince others that they need to stand up and add their voice too.

When you hit a brick wall, make a right turn and move around it... You know, there is a famous General in the civil war who's army was defeated time and time again.. and instead of quitting, he turned his army, and went around the opposing force and attacking once more. He did this several times, marching south through Virginia, getting his tail whipped, turning and attacking again and again... Finally, the opposing General ran out of men and supplies, and the Civil War was over. That man's name was US Grant... and the Opposing General was Robert E. Lee.

It comes down to staying in the fight. We need your voice and your actions if we intend to stay on the battle field.

 

QUOTE from Dragginbutt I suspect there are a lot of Illinois and Iowa citizens that regularly use what ever trail system they can get to on several occasions each year.


I have seen a lot of our friends from Canada, as well.