MUDDY4LIFE, thank you for answering

Sorry if you took my other posts the wrong way.

Some (including me) can not make all those ATV board meetings.
Sometimes some of us out here have to earn a living.
I think my family would not like it if I lost a job to go to that meeting. Ya think?

Thanks again for the info, it is helpful.

 

Motosport quote:
MUDDY4LIFE, you said in one of your posts that you "know" where the 4million sticker money have gone, if so why not tell us? Is this some super secret?

What he's trying to tell you....is that the very people who I've been after for years now to come out here into the light of day REGARDING these decisions....HAVE ALREADY MADE THIS DECISION <u>FOR</u> YOU!!!.

As soon as I started demanding to know how this $4 million would be spent...two things happened.

One...these club 'leaders' tried every trick in the book to delay any debate concerning this money; using the typical "you're just a so-and-so" tactic and prodding their advisory board member to issue statements such as this (and this is a quote) "...Until you establish an attitude similar to the above paragraph, I wish to have no further dialog with you. I find the currant situation to be a near complete waste of my time..." (that "attitude" being that I quit asking them how they will spend this money and that they actually 'reveal' 'who is actually speaking for you and I, the citizens of this state)...

and #2)...the DNR simply claimed at the outset that there would be "many public meetings regarding the dispersal of these funds"...(these being the same meetings that Muddy and his boys never wanted to occur and <U>didn't</U>).

This isn't about issues, Motosport...it's about a bunch of city slickers from suburban Detroit and elsewhere HIJACKING every issue which comes along and making them their own beyond whatever they and the DNR want to TELL YOU they've came up with every 3 or 6 months.(when you attend these meetings; you can ask all the questions you'd like...yet there is absolutely no mechanism in place forcing these people to answer even ONE of them!).

If you want to accuse me of being one of those "so and so politicians" over my fight to keep you continually informed for the first time and/or your kids a chance to maybe get <u>involved</u> in the process 'someday'...then so be it.

 

Motosports,
no problem,the bills have to come first before the ORV meetings,I understand that.

Please be very careful with ANY information Blackballed tells you.He just told you that OTHER folks are the ones that make the decision on how and where your ORV dollars will be spent,and quite frankly,you can also add that to the huge list of bad information and outright lies he tells in this forum.The fact of the matter is,that there were several OPEN meetings to the PUBLIC in the last year on what THEY wanted out of the ORV trail system and how THEY would like their ORV dollars spent.There was even a 60 day comment period for users to write in to the DNR and post their wants and needs for the updated ORV plans.The DNR did look for PUBLIC input..The public has some influenced with ORV decisions.

BB QUOTE*As soon as I started demanding to know how this $4 million would be spent...two things happened END OF QUOTE**

BB cant DEMAND anything,he does'nt have the power to DEMAND.Now BB,YOU claimed that the club leaders tried tactics to DELAY debating the spending of this 4 million dollars of ORV monies with you.FYI,up until the November 9th ORV Board meeting,NO CLUB or club leaders knew a thing about WHERE and HOW this 4 million dollars would be spent.Steve Kubisiak told the public IN THIS MEETING where the monies would be spent.Thats the first time anybody knew where this money was going.So BB,how can you claim that club leaders tried DELAY TACTICS in giving you this information,when they themselves did'nt have this information until November the 9th?You just keep digging your self in a deeper hole everytime you make these lies up.Someday,your going to understand WHY NOBODY in the ENTIRE State of Michigan wants to deal with you on an ORV level because you dont know HOW to tell the TRUTH if it were to hit your right smack in the face.

Did you ever run off and get married last year?If so,please do the ORV community a favor and dont make the same mistake your parents did------- PLEASE,use BIRTH CONTROL!


Im wondering WHY you have'nt made an apology to this forum for your lies about the MMRC and the accusations against the club I belong to after I myself made a call to the Jen yesterday and uncovered the lies you put forth in this forum?

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
"...Motosports, no problem,the bills have to come first before the ORV meetings...."

There is no "bill" in the history of this state that has ever had "make sure this is agreed upon (or even discussed) by most parties at the Michigan Orv Advisory Board Meeting..."' as some kind of pre-requisit" for passage.
And even if this ridiculous claim was true...why do you think Muddy won't argue with the fact that your being there would have no other effect than to be another witness to its mere announcement?(<u>as has every other orv bill that I've ever witnessed!)
</u>
"....Please be very careful with ANY information Blackballed tells you.He just told you that OTHER folks are the ones that make the decision on how and where your ORV dollars will be spent,and quite frankly,you can also add that to the huge list of bad information and outright lies he tells in this forum.The fact of the matter is,that there were several OPEN meetings to the PUBLIC in the last year on what THEY wanted out of the ORV trail system and how THEY would like their ORV dollars spent.There was even a 60 day comment period for users to write in to the DNR and post their wants and needs for the updated ORV plans.The DNR did look for PUBLIC input...."

I think you need to be careful with what somebody tells you alright....this $4 million we're discussing here was never even so much as mentioned by the DNR during the formation of the update plan we were "allowed" to comment on nor did this money have anything to do with the public commentary period he is trying to 'bait and switch' you into. I'm telling you, IT IS LAUGHABLE what these guys try to pull on those who ask simple questions! Again, this money wasn't even a factor in this plan; yet he wants to believe you are STUPID enough to believe it!!!

"..BB cant DEMAND anything,he does'nt have the power to DEMAND...".

Nah, you're right.....I just have the 'power' to be smarter than who I'm debating....and the guts to call them on whatever they try to pull. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

"...Now BB,YOU claimed that the club leaders tried tactics to DELAY debating the spending of this 4 million dollars of ORV monies with you,please give me the NAMES of these club leaders who did this to you,im certain that they would want to know. BB...."

Anybody who wants to know the crap I've been through lately; including the board chairman's refusal (again) to not only answer my questions over al these years...but his continued refusal to even so much as release the few answers he's given (you've gotta love a guy who rarely gives the positions he was charged with assimilating when he volunteered..yet will not ALLOW you to publish his positions when asked)...can reach me privately. I've had enough of explaining what others won't.

"...BUT , Im wondering WHY you have'nt made an apology to this forum for your lies about the MMRC and the accusations against the club I belong to..."

I don't know what club you're referring to, Muddy; yet the only guy I've ever heard mentioned in the same breath as this super-secret "MMRC"....is the same guy who flat out refused to even name who was on it ....or how 'exactly' he was representing "us" on same!!!
If you're going to keep bringing this stuff 'up', Muddy...you've got to remember that each and every time you open up a door...that skeleton just 'might' pop out of the closet! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

"...after I myself made a call to the Jen yesterday and uncovered the lies you put forth in this forum?..."

Well tell us all about it, Muddy.....I told Jen that she could call me back at her convenience. If she told you something different than what she told me when I questioned her last time about this bill....please tell us all how Representative Hildenbrand wanted to widen all the trails as you and your buddies claimed...not simply allow our Rangers and Rhinos ON THEM as his office as claimed.

We're waiting! (by the way, tell us all again about how that $4 million was publicly up for discussion at these orv update plan commentary meetings....Hmmmm?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ).

 

BB,
just like the other 10 or so ORV related forums you've been BOOTED from,you side mark the discussions in here to.

Best of luck in your ORV ventures for the State of Michigan,as I know a gazillion folks who are FED-UP with YOU.

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
"...FYI,up until the November 9th ORV Board meeting,NO CLUB or club leaders knew a thing about WHERE and HOW this 4 million dollars would be spent.Steve Kubisiak told the public IN THIS MEETING where the monies would be spent...."

My point exactly. These guys want you and I to believe the same crap the DNR shovels on us. The clubs try to convince the public that they free up all this money without ever approaching the DNR on how to spend it....and the DNR comes back with "we have no idea as to what the clubs do or even <u>want</u>" I've witnessed these guys play this game for years...resulting in no one having to publicly announce who stood up when and for what.

"....Thats the first time anybody knew where this money was going.So BB,how can you claim that club leaders tried DELAY TACTICS in giving you this information,when they themselves did'nt have this information until November the 9th?..."

Again, this is the same game. The DNR has been unble to provide any formal proof that <u>any</u> of these clubs (including the super-secret "MMRC") has even so much as unifiably COMMENTED on the all-important update plan. Then they show up to announce the same plan (after over a year and a half) with the same game you see Muddy playing here with this $4 million..."Oh no, we haven't talked with the DNR about ANY of this....and never even imagined doing so! Meanwhile, I'm stuck paying for FOIA requests regarding simple formal unified club positions on the most important issue to ever come before our sport..and there are none to be found (which is convenient if you don't want anybody knowing what you are trying to convince the DNR of anyways).

"...You just keep digging your self in a deeper hole everytime you make these lies up.Someday,your going to understand WHY NOBODY in the ENTIRE State of Michigan wants to deal with you on an ORV level because you dont know HOW to tell the TRUTH if it were to hit your right smack in the face...."

Hey, I kind of like it out here by myself...as the only issues that concern me presently are ones involving the simple fight for this public to be clued in as to what you guys are doing with their money.
And if simply shining a light on your activities causes you folks so much obvious discomfort?...then "I" suggest not acting as secretive as you have been for all these years and quit being ashamed of answering simple questions as they come up (they tend to 'snowball' and definitely affect your organization's public reputation over time). [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

"It will cleanse the soul..."
Fred Bear

 

Do send them my best and tell them to have a Happy Holidays [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]...won't you?

 

Sorry to bother you again but where can I find out more info on the gladwin trail head? Its the only one that i know about, and its only about 25 min from my cabin. Is there anywhere else to ride up there? Went to that other atv web site and they want to much info, and there trail info did not work. They just did the parking at the Gladwin trail, made it look good what a waste of money. Once again our tax dollars put to good use, is it to late to do anything?

 

I would say do a search on whoever's forum you are talking about.
There are people in these clubs who like to talk a lot about 'where' to ride, 'what' they rode and who's going to bring those weenies to the next ride (or what the next 'cool' club t-shirt or bumper sticker should look like)...just not necessarily whether those same trails will necessarily be there tomorrow for them to ride or how actually fixing these trails might somehow financially compromise the building of their long sought after big city slicker riding area in southeast Michigan
The motorcyclists have told us that many of these trails are "irrepairable" and that the only solution to this is upsetting even more environmentalists by screwing up <u>more</u> ground with absolutely no modern maintenance equipment to support any new trail laid right down beside the old one
But 'hey'...if you want your atv club to be chartered and introduced to everybody in the Michigan orv community as a "sub-chapter" of the motorcyclists?...you'll do their bidding and keep your mouth <u>shut!!!</u>.

It's amazing to me how guys can sit around a table asking their leader to make certain that their direction is kept separate from a motorcyclist group who has already <u>blatantly</u> tried to screw 'em...and then a short time later....send that same leader out to BEG these same guys to be their little red-headed stepchild!

Is there any pride left in Michigan atv organizations(?)...or did the first time this community tried to rally around a slickster with his fancy trailer and big promises...leave a bad taste in the mouth of all of us out here (frankly) 'unwilling' to be led BLINDLY once again?

 

WOW, lots of new reading since my last presence here.

I kinda understand your replies to the where is the 4million question, but that is a similar answer I got back when I read the ORV updated plan. I guess there is no newer info than that, woulda been nice for you to just put in email addresses for Steve Kubisiak or Jim Radabaugh (Kubisiak Steve Landscape Design Spec 2 517-373-1665 kubisias@michigan.gov Lansing Office) & (Radabaugh Jim State Administrative Mgr 1 517-373-1276 radabauj@michigan.gov Lansing Office).
Thanks for atleast pointing me in a direction to possible answers, altho dealing with most in State of MI gov't I do not expect much. And I see my opinion of my expected replies as one of the major problems in this State. Just a FYI, that I did sent in my comment on the updated orv plan, unlike many orv users in MI who did not even bother.\\

Back to the supposed bill to widen trails to 60", If I understand this correctly now, the bill was to only allow up to 60" orv's on orv trails, and did not mean the trails would be widened to 60". Am I correct on this?

Now that I understand it more, I will agree that all the orv groups were complaining that all the sticker money to widen trails and such was just that a bunch of BS. So in a round about way this bill got killed because a few were indirectly telling orv users that the bill was evil and was going to spend all the sticker money to widen all orv trails to 60" when it seems it did not. I could be misunderstanding what I've been told about that bill, but I do not see what was wrong with it.

youngbuck330, As for other trails nearest gladwin I think to try geels, and st. helen.

Also I have some other simple questions that no one will answer...why are the current atv/orv trails not maintained?