This is scary- Pentagon spying on Americans
#301
02-22-2006, 01:07 PM
This is scary- Pentagon spying on Americans
[i]Originally posted by: Deeplaker60
"Erroneous slogan"? That's what many in the media want you to believe.
"Erroneous slogan"? That's what many in the media want you to believe.
As to the NY Times, it's a well-known fact Sulzberger blundered putting Raines in charge. They were fortunate to have canned him before he brought them down.
#302
02-22-2006, 01:35 PM
This is scary- Pentagon spying on Americans
[i]Originally posted by: DSNUT
The reason you don't think the mainstream media is liberal is because you happen to be more liberal than they are. Perspective defines this relative nature. You are far enough to the left that you don't think the media is biased and you think Republicans are extreme. If you follow your own counsel and follow the money, the right conclusion would be that mainstream America is more conservative because it is their money that is not going to the old media and it is that same money that is paying for the new media.
The reason you don't think the mainstream media is liberal is because you happen to be more liberal than they are. Perspective defines this relative nature. You are far enough to the left that you don't think the media is biased and you think Republicans are extreme. If you follow your own counsel and follow the money, the right conclusion would be that mainstream America is more conservative because it is their money that is not going to the old media and it is that same money that is paying for the new media.
#303
02-22-2006, 02:26 PM
This is scary- Pentagon spying on Americans
Originally posted by: georged
Having served on a board or two, I can tell you board members are primarily concerned with approval and disapproval of CEO planning and results directly related to shareholder value. What editorial slant any form of publicly owned media follows is generally secondary to results. As long as the targeted audience is hearing whatever rings their bell, a flat earth comes to mind and provides my opinion of the general public's intellectual range, that audience will buy advertiser product. Positive always sells far better than negative, which is why most sound financial and economic reports are private subscription and not dependent on advertising or other public related revenue. Looking at both sides of any issue is what provides a basis for sound reasoning.
You're making assumptions. I've been a life-long Republican, voted for Bush the first time around and know how to follow the money far better than most. I consider the new conservative ideology repainted Southern Democrats; fiscally irresponsible, favoring of big government and living in fear perpetuated by our foreign policy to a point where they're prepared to relinquish their civil liberties based on false promises and bankrupt the country in the process. Ironic when the public supporting them has the most to lose.
[i]Originally posted by: DSNUT
The reason you don't think the mainstream media is liberal is because you happen to be more liberal than they are. Perspective defines this relative nature. You are far enough to the left that you don't think the media is biased and you think Republicans are extreme. If you follow your own counsel and follow the money, the right conclusion would be that mainstream America is more conservative because it is their money that is not going to the old media and it is that same money that is paying for the new media.
The reason you don't think the mainstream media is liberal is because you happen to be more liberal than they are. Perspective defines this relative nature. You are far enough to the left that you don't think the media is biased and you think Republicans are extreme. If you follow your own counsel and follow the money, the right conclusion would be that mainstream America is more conservative because it is their money that is not going to the old media and it is that same money that is paying for the new media.
You're making assumptions. I've been a life-long Republican, voted for Bush the first time around and know how to follow the money far better than most. I consider the new conservative ideology repainted Southern Democrats; fiscally irresponsible, favoring of big government and living in fear perpetuated by our foreign policy to a point where they're prepared to relinquish their civil liberties based on false promises and bankrupt the country in the process. Ironic when the public supporting them has the most to lose.
#304
02-22-2006, 02:38 PM
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This is scary- Pentagon spying on Americans
[quote]
Originally posted by: georged
Huh?
Originally posted by: georged
[i]Originally posted by: Deeplaker60
As long as the targeted audience is hearing whatever rings their bell, a flat earth comes to mind and provides my opinion of the general public's intellectual range, that audience will buy advertiser product.
As long as the targeted audience is hearing whatever rings their bell, a flat earth comes to mind and provides my opinion of the general public's intellectual range, that audience will buy advertiser product.
#305
02-22-2006, 02:49 PM
This is scary- Pentagon spying on Americans
[quote]
Originally posted by: Deeplaker60
That is exactly what I picked up on to. Georged, you are proving my assumptions to be true with your cynicism towards the general public. Just because you say you are a Republican does not make you a conservative. A conservative has faith in the general public. Liberals do not. You believe the general public is not smart enough to decide what they want if they have a different opinion than you hold. I am part of this general public that disagree's with how you want things portrayed.
....with all due respect.
Ron
Originally posted by: Deeplaker60
Originally posted by: georged
Huh?
[i]Originally posted by: Deeplaker60
As long as the targeted audience is hearing whatever rings their bell, a flat earth comes to mind and provides my opinion of the general public's intellectual range, that audience will buy advertiser product.
As long as the targeted audience is hearing whatever rings their bell, a flat earth comes to mind and provides my opinion of the general public's intellectual range, that audience will buy advertiser product.
....with all due respect.
Ron
#306
02-22-2006, 04:08 PM
This is scary- Pentagon spying on Americans
Originally posted by: DSNUT
Georged,
You can't win an argument about the bias of the old media. They give passes to all but the most egregious Democrat crimes, yet they swarm around around Republicans and try to destroy them over accidents or mistakes and crimes worthy of being covered.
They have only reported the bad news out of Iraq by and large. They ignore or make sure there is another story at the top of the page when historical elections are held. They always air or print military personel who oppose the war but hardly show how overwhelmingly the troops support what they are doing. etc., etc.
From mainstream America's point of view the old media is biased and, again, the proof is in their advertising revenue. They are slowely going broke. Ratings are declining for them which means they are much more expensive to operate than their audience can justify. The new media, on the other hand which is by and large conservative is thriving and growing. The only reason can be that most Americans relate to and trust the new media so they watch and listen to them..........
The reason you don't think the mainstream media is liberal is because you happen to be more liberal than they are. Perspective defines this relative nature. You are far enough to the left that you don't think the media is biased and you think Republicans are extreme. If you follow your own counsel and follow the money, the right conclusion would be that mainstream America is more conservative because it is their money that is not going to the old media and it is that same money that is paying for the new media.
The conservative talk shows, blogs and Fox News does not need wealthy contributors to carry most of their overhead. They have advertisers tripping over themselves to get a slot because the audience is so huge. Liberal talk network is on the verge of bankruptcy constantly. The only thing that bails them out is rich special interest contributors.
You attempt to say conservative rhetoric is tired but it is the liberal agenda that is tired. It is not resonating with people anymore. It is negative, people want to hear the positive things to.
Ron
Originally posted by: georged
Just don't believe anything you hear and you'll be right most of the time. The media picks what's news, and too often what they pick to tell us is not news at all. It just fits their liberal agenda. It looks like we have a case in point here.
So, it's not really news that a president orders questionable wiretaps in the name of national security. You are hearing so much about it today only because it fits the media's liberal agenda.
Ever review media ownership? Familiar with the business side of how advertising revenue drives editorial policy? Ownership of advertisers who provide that revenue to facilitate media policy? Traditional conservative and liberal beliefs regarding civil liberties? Using tired, erroneous slogans such as the liberal media prompts those questions.
Just don't believe anything you hear and you'll be right most of the time. The media picks what's news, and too often what they pick to tell us is not news at all. It just fits their liberal agenda. It looks like we have a case in point here.
So, it's not really news that a president orders questionable wiretaps in the name of national security. You are hearing so much about it today only because it fits the media's liberal agenda.
You can't win an argument about the bias of the old media. They give passes to all but the most egregious Democrat crimes, yet they swarm around around Republicans and try to destroy them over accidents or mistakes and crimes worthy of being covered.
They have only reported the bad news out of Iraq by and large. They ignore or make sure there is another story at the top of the page when historical elections are held. They always air or print military personel who oppose the war but hardly show how overwhelmingly the troops support what they are doing. etc., etc.
From mainstream America's point of view the old media is biased and, again, the proof is in their advertising revenue. They are slowely going broke. Ratings are declining for them which means they are much more expensive to operate than their audience can justify. The new media, on the other hand which is by and large conservative is thriving and growing. The only reason can be that most Americans relate to and trust the new media so they watch and listen to them..........
The reason you don't think the mainstream media is liberal is because you happen to be more liberal than they are. Perspective defines this relative nature. You are far enough to the left that you don't think the media is biased and you think Republicans are extreme. If you follow your own counsel and follow the money, the right conclusion would be that mainstream America is more conservative because it is their money that is not going to the old media and it is that same money that is paying for the new media.
The conservative talk shows, blogs and Fox News does not need wealthy contributors to carry most of their overhead. They have advertisers tripping over themselves to get a slot because the audience is so huge. Liberal talk network is on the verge of bankruptcy constantly. The only thing that bails them out is rich special interest contributors.
You attempt to say conservative rhetoric is tired but it is the liberal agenda that is tired. It is not resonating with people anymore. It is negative, people want to hear the positive things to.
Ron
Its the american way to critizise our leaders, always has been and probably always will be, but to pretend that its only democrats who have ever complained about the government is misleading...us republicans were bulldogs back then, but now, we forget what rule of law was all about.
Im just surprised at how youve forgotten history, and how us republicans acted back then, all over a bj. Now the constitition is being ignored, laws are broken, and it gets 'reported', but nothing ever actually gets accomplished, no one is charged, no talk about impeachment, all investigations are covered up or surpressed.
#307
02-22-2006, 05:29 PM
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This is scary- Pentagon spying on Americans
Maybe we need to separate people from politicians. Politicians of both parties seem to be putting politics ahead of the common good. What one party does, politicians on the other side will automatically oppose, even if it would benefit the people. Then, the opposition later does the same thing, and the original supporters in the other party oppose it.
I really think the problem is the news media. Republican inconsistencies make front page news, but if the Democrats do the same thing, it gets reported on a back page next to the dog food ads...if it gets reported at all. People aren't stupid. They can see what's going on. Of course, there is the problem pointed out by Hitler who said something to the effect that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
What I'm getting from the news media makes me against the Iraq war. Then, I hear the other side from someone who is over there, and I can see that the impression I'm getting from the media is clearly a lie. What they tell us is accurate. They just omit pertinent points that contradict a liberal agenda. Of course, if all the information from the media had a conservative slant, I wouldn't believe that either.
I really think the problem is the news media. Republican inconsistencies make front page news, but if the Democrats do the same thing, it gets reported on a back page next to the dog food ads...if it gets reported at all. People aren't stupid. They can see what's going on. Of course, there is the problem pointed out by Hitler who said something to the effect that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
What I'm getting from the news media makes me against the Iraq war. Then, I hear the other side from someone who is over there, and I can see that the impression I'm getting from the media is clearly a lie. What they tell us is accurate. They just omit pertinent points that contradict a liberal agenda. Of course, if all the information from the media had a conservative slant, I wouldn't believe that either.
#308
02-22-2006, 05:38 PM
This is scary- Pentagon spying on Americans
Originally posted by: hondabuster
Seems back in the 80s, when us republicans were attacking clinton and gore...there wasnt any republicans standing up and saying positive things about them, or defending them. It sure seemed to me, we were bent on destroying the democratic party and anyone who went along with them. (remember gingrich?) Seemed like the public only wanted to hear negative things about their government back then....why now, is it unacceptable to air our greavances? Even today...do you know of any republicans who give any slack to democrats. Crime is crime, and no slack should be given to those who are lawbreakers, america should come first, and political party should come in last.
Its the american way to critizise our leaders, always has been and probably always will be, but to pretend that its only democrats who have ever complained about the government is misleading...us republicans were bulldogs back then, but now, we forget what rule of law was all about.
Im just surprised at how youve forgotten history, and how us republicans acted back then, all over a bj. Now the constitition is being ignored, laws are broken, and it gets 'reported', but nothing ever actually gets accomplished, no one is charged, no talk about impeachment, all investigations are covered up or surpressed.
Originally posted by: DSNUT
Georged,
You can't win an argument about the bias of the old media. They give passes to all but the most egregious Democrat crimes, yet they swarm around around Republicans and try to destroy them over accidents or mistakes and crimes worthy of being covered.
They have only reported the bad news out of Iraq by and large. They ignore or make sure there is another story at the top of the page when historical elections are held. They always air or print military personel who oppose the war but hardly show how overwhelmingly the troops support what they are doing. etc., etc.
From mainstream America's point of view the old media is biased and, again, the proof is in their advertising revenue. They are slowely going broke. Ratings are declining for them which means they are much more expensive to operate than their audience can justify. The new media, on the other hand which is by and large conservative is thriving and growing. The only reason can be that most Americans relate to and trust the new media so they watch and listen to them..........
The reason you don't think the mainstream media is liberal is because you happen to be more liberal than they are. Perspective defines this relative nature. You are far enough to the left that you don't think the media is biased and you think Republicans are extreme. If you follow your own counsel and follow the money, the right conclusion would be that mainstream America is more conservative because it is their money that is not going to the old media and it is that same money that is paying for the new media.
The conservative talk shows, blogs and Fox News does not need wealthy contributors to carry most of their overhead. They have advertisers tripping over themselves to get a slot because the audience is so huge. Liberal talk network is on the verge of bankruptcy constantly. The only thing that bails them out is rich special interest contributors.
You attempt to say conservative rhetoric is tired but it is the liberal agenda that is tired. It is not resonating with people anymore. It is negative, people want to hear the positive things to.
Ron
Originally posted by: georged
Just don't believe anything you hear and you'll be right most of the time. The media picks what's news, and too often what they pick to tell us is not news at all. It just fits their liberal agenda. It looks like we have a case in point here.
So, it's not really news that a president orders questionable wiretaps in the name of national security. You are hearing so much about it today only because it fits the media's liberal agenda.
Ever review media ownership? Familiar with the business side of how advertising revenue drives editorial policy? Ownership of advertisers who provide that revenue to facilitate media policy? Traditional conservative and liberal beliefs regarding civil liberties? Using tired, erroneous slogans such as the liberal media prompts those questions.
Just don't believe anything you hear and you'll be right most of the time. The media picks what's news, and too often what they pick to tell us is not news at all. It just fits their liberal agenda. It looks like we have a case in point here.
So, it's not really news that a president orders questionable wiretaps in the name of national security. You are hearing so much about it today only because it fits the media's liberal agenda.
You can't win an argument about the bias of the old media. They give passes to all but the most egregious Democrat crimes, yet they swarm around around Republicans and try to destroy them over accidents or mistakes and crimes worthy of being covered.
They have only reported the bad news out of Iraq by and large. They ignore or make sure there is another story at the top of the page when historical elections are held. They always air or print military personel who oppose the war but hardly show how overwhelmingly the troops support what they are doing. etc., etc.
From mainstream America's point of view the old media is biased and, again, the proof is in their advertising revenue. They are slowely going broke. Ratings are declining for them which means they are much more expensive to operate than their audience can justify. The new media, on the other hand which is by and large conservative is thriving and growing. The only reason can be that most Americans relate to and trust the new media so they watch and listen to them..........
The reason you don't think the mainstream media is liberal is because you happen to be more liberal than they are. Perspective defines this relative nature. You are far enough to the left that you don't think the media is biased and you think Republicans are extreme. If you follow your own counsel and follow the money, the right conclusion would be that mainstream America is more conservative because it is their money that is not going to the old media and it is that same money that is paying for the new media.
The conservative talk shows, blogs and Fox News does not need wealthy contributors to carry most of their overhead. They have advertisers tripping over themselves to get a slot because the audience is so huge. Liberal talk network is on the verge of bankruptcy constantly. The only thing that bails them out is rich special interest contributors.
You attempt to say conservative rhetoric is tired but it is the liberal agenda that is tired. It is not resonating with people anymore. It is negative, people want to hear the positive things to.
Ron
Its the american way to critizise our leaders, always has been and probably always will be, but to pretend that its only democrats who have ever complained about the government is misleading...us republicans were bulldogs back then, but now, we forget what rule of law was all about.
Im just surprised at how youve forgotten history, and how us republicans acted back then, all over a bj. Now the constitition is being ignored, laws are broken, and it gets 'reported', but nothing ever actually gets accomplished, no one is charged, no talk about impeachment, all investigations are covered up or surpressed.
You can also call yourself a Republican but you are not a conservative either. You are speaking from a liberal perspective and it is misleading when you attach your ideas to the fact that you are a Republican. A very small percentage of Republicans look at the world the way you do. On the other hand, I can name off almost every liberal democrat friend I have and they sound just like you in the arena of ideas.
Regarding the subject of your post, I am speaking to the way the world is right now. During the Clinton years and contract with america mastermind by Newt Gingrich the republicans took control of both houses of congress. This was mostly due to Clinton running as a conservative (which he did both times) then turned around right after he was elected and raised taxes and so on with a liberal agenda. The American people fixed the democrats in 1994, not Newt Gingrich or the republican party. The republicans could not have done it themselves. Newt happened to be very good at keeping control of his people. Whether you like him or not, he was tough and focused. Ultimately it was the general public that removed the democrats from power thanks to the way the Clintons operated. If a party is "de-throned", a conservative assumes the party no longer aligns itself with the people. A liberal assumes the other party took them down. Here is my point, the conservative viewpoint maintains trust in the American people to decide whether a leader or party is doing well. We trust that the public at large can sift through the political crap and see the truth when they go to vote. A liberal, like you and georged have made plain with your statements that you think that whichever party does the best job of getting their message out and/or is successful in making the other party look bad.........that the American people will follow lockstep and can't or won't think for themselves and wont' be able to see through the lies of both sides.
Have some faith in the people of America. They/we are a lot smarter than you give us credit for being.
Ron
#309
02-22-2006, 07:02 PM
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#310
02-22-2006, 07:16 PM
This is scary- Pentagon spying on Americans
Originally posted by: Deeplaker60
Honda Buster saying he's a Republican is like the news media saying they are fair and objective.
Honda Buster saying he's a Republican is like the news media saying they are fair and objective.
I do like your ideas though. You think like me.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Ron