Everyone should read Howard Zinns History of America, believe me, you wont see any of those facts in the plain vanilla history books of high school.

 

Dee Dog I think your just bunching georged and myself together, and as much as I have enjoyed his replies here they still are not my own, and I cant take credit or blame for anything but what I have contributed myself.

What I find interesting is that a few posters seem to be missing the fact that I am not disagreeing with most all of the factual points made or outside reporting that is cut and pasted in, and I do see where there is a serious need for all of us to be concerned, but what I also think (and I am sure I have said it before) is that the posts that are obviously negative attacks on only one person or political party just seem to lose merit with me since i honestly believe both parties work together in screwing things up, but only in different ways.

Read that as neither political party is a bargain, and needs serious reorganizing.

So getting back to your comment on taking away our right to ride I have to say that it seems very obvious that the replublican party is completely alone in its policy and thinking that we as americans actually have a right to access public lands for our enjoyment, and that includes for the use of motorized vehicles as well.

This is something that was posted on another site that I think reinforces this.
Bush opens up backcountry trails to vehicles

By ROBERT McCLURE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Jan. 1 - The Bush administration, in a move that has outraged environmentalists, is about to hand a big victory to Westerners who want to use a post-Civil War-era law to punch dirt-bike trails and roads into the backcountry.


full story here

 

Thats rediculous, first your only speaking for yourself (trust me I know people personally who agree and completely disagree with your views, and yes there all currently serving, some even in the same area you claim) and the birds of a feather reply is juvenile.

I cant speak for anyone else but I know both officers and grunts, and even a couple cooks [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

All I said was if you were not williing or able to post a reliable source for your info that you should atleast take the time to explain your points so that you dont appear to just be reciting some propaganda that was engrained in you.

I have found your posts interesting, but also frustrating due to the lack of completed thoughts or opinions and the added dimension of all the tension and anexiety you seem to portray.

If you want to leave hey thats great and I have no problem or ill feelings etc, but if you decide to stay thats fine to.

Still and this is for everyone try to understand that everything happens for a reason, and when politics is involved its rarely the one that appears obvious, and that is why we need to retain our civil liberties so that we can actually question these things and make our own decisions!!!

 

I know that wasnt directed towards me, but I have to comment since I dont believe any of the liars, and those are only three on a list of thousands.

Also I dont always think liar is the proper word since most of these types can talk about a subject for hours and never actually say anything that is directly about the subject at hand. Its really a talent, and if you get the time (anyone or everyone) try and do it yourself, and see how damn hard it is to discuss anything without making any solid statements that dont have enough meanings that you can still change your mind later.

If I told you I was good at it, would you vote for me?????? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

This story was just in the news.
I had an interseting discussion last night, with a guy at work. One of the other guys was talking about, how if youre doing nothing wrong...why worry about spying.
My friend gave a good response. Hes a member of the NRA, and hes familiar with the politcal tactics, used to try to take away the second amendment rights to own guns.
The NRA policy is to not negoiate, minimze, compromise, or give one inch. This is a contitutional right, and its not to be bargined with. The government cant take away out rights, we have to volutarily give them up.
This is why its important to not let freedom of speach, or right to privacy issues go unchecked
.If we concede one right, whats to stop them? I thought it was a good analogy.




Published on Thursday, January 12, 2006 by the Los Angeles Times
You're Being Watched: Efforts to Collect Data on Americans Go Far Beyond the NSA's Domestic Spying Program
by Laura K. Donohue


Congress will soon hold hearings on the National Security Agency's domestic spying program, secretly authorized by President Bush in 2002. But that program is just the tip of the iceberg.

Since 9/11, the expansion of efforts to gather and analyze information on U.S. citizens is nothing short of staggering. The government collects vast troves of data, including consumer credit histories and medical and travel records. Databases track Americans' networks of friends, family and associates, not just to identify who is a terrorist but to try to predict who might become one.

Remember Total Information Awareness, retired Adm. John Poindexter's effort to harness all government and commercial databases to preempt national security threats? The idea was that disparate, seemingly mundane behaviors can reveal criminal intent when viewed together. More disturbing, it assumed that deviance from social norms can be an early indicator of terrorism. Congress killed that program in 2003, but according to the Associated Press, many related projects continued.

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency runs a data-mining program called Evidence Extraction and Link Discovery, which connects pieces of information from vast amounts of data sources. The Defense Intelligence Agency trawls intelligence records and the Internet to identify Americans connected to foreign terrorists. The CIA reportedly runs Quantum Leap, which gathers personal information on individuals from private and public sources. In 2002, Congress authorized $500 million for the Homeland Security Department to develop "data mining and other advanced analytical tools." In 2004, the General Accounting Office surveyed 128 federal departments and agencies to determine the extent of data mining. It found 199 operations, 14 of which related to counterterrorism.

What type of information could these mine? Your tax, education, vehicle, criminal and welfare records for starters. But also other digital data, such as your travel, medical and insurance records — and DNA tests. Section 505 of the Patriot Act (innocuously titled "Miscellaneous National Security Authorities") extends the type of information the government can obtain without a warrant to include credit card records, bank account numbers and information on Internet use.

Your checking account may tell which charities or political causes you support. Your credit card statements show where you shop, and your supermarket frequent-buyer-card records may indicate whether you keep kosher or follow an Islamic halal diet. Internet searches record your interests, down to what, exactly, you read. Faith forums or chat rooms offer a window into your thoughts and beliefs. E-mail and telephone conversations contain intimate details of your life.

A University of Illinois study found that in the 12 months following 9/11, federal agents made at least 545 visits to libraries to obtain information about patrons. This isn't just data surveillance. It's psychological surveillance.

Many Americans might approve of data mining to find terrorists. But not all of the inquiries necessarily relate to terrorism. The Patriot Act allows law enforcement officers to get "sneak and peek" warrants to search a home for any suspected crime — and to wait months or even years to tell the owner they were there. Last July, the Justice Department told the House Judiciary Committee that only 12% of the 153 "sneak and peek" warrants it received were related to terrorism investigations.

The FBI has used Patriot Act powers to break into a judge's chambers and to procure records from medical clinics. Documents obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union recently revealed that the FBI used other new powers to eavesdrop on environmental, political and religious organizations.

When Congress looks into domestic spying in the "war on terror," it should ask a series of questions:

First, what information, exactly, is being collected? Are other programs besides the president's NSA initiative ignoring traditional warrant requirements? Are federal agencies dodging weak privacy laws by outsourcing the job to private contractors?

Second, who has access to the data once it is collected, and what legal restrictions are set on how it can be used or shared?

Third, who authorized data mining, and is its use restricted to identifying terrorists?

Fourth, what is the collective effect of these programs on citizens' rights? Privacy certainly suffers, but as individuals begin to feel inhibited in what they say and do, free speech and freedom of assembly also erode.

Fifth, how do these data collection and mining operations deal with error? As anyone who's tried to dispute an erroneous credit report can attest, once computer networks exchange data, it may be difficult to verify its accuracy or where it entered the system. Citizens who do not know they are under surveillance cannot challenge inaccurate information that may become part of their secret digital dossier.

What will Congress do to ensure that the innocent remain so?

 

Romance, I'm there with ya. Haven't even looked at this thread for a couple weeks and I come back for kicks and giggles and I must say, "There are a lot of people who need to get jobs." Holy cow. Hey Camo, nice post

 

LOL yeah i haven't looked in awhile either. the posts keep getting longer and longer with no results. i mean nobody is really going to sway anybody one way or the other. if you have an opinion theres not much chance of change. im not saying this about everyone but i'd say most.

wannabeakid i noticed your from north carolina! im going to be heading over there in april and staying for a few years. but i don't know hardly anything about the place! what are the majority of people like? im going to be more toward the coast so whats the rural people, country, and weather like? just thot i should have a little bit of an idea before i got there LOL.

 

being a vet I thought I would share a clip I found awhile back with you all.

The average age of the military man is 19 years. He is a short haired, tight-muscled kid who, under normal circumstances is considered by society as half man, half boy. Not yet dry behind the ears, not old enough to buy a beer, but old enough to die for his country. He never really cared much for work and he would rather wax his own car than wash his father's; but he has never collected unemployment either. He's a recent High School graduate;or drop out he was probably an average student, pursued some form of sport activities, drives a ten year old jalopy, and has a steady girlfriend that either broke up with him when he left, or swears to be waiting when he returns from half a world away. He listens to rock and roll or hip-hop or rap or jazz or swing and 155mm Howitzers. He is 10 or 15 pounds lighter now than when he was at home because he is working or fighting from before dawn to well after dusk. He has trouble spelling, thus letter writing is a pain for him, but he can field strip a rifle in 30 seconds and reassemble it in less time in the dark. He can recite to you the nomenclature of a machine gun or grenade launcher and use either one effectively if he must. He digs foxholes and latrines and can apply first aid like a professional. He can march until he is told to stop or stop until he is told to march. He obeys orders instantly and without hesitation, but he is not without spirit or individual dignity. He is self-sufficient. He has two sets of fatigues: he washes one and wears the other. He keeps his canteens full and his feet dry. He sometimes forgets to brush his teeth, but never to clean his rifle. He can cook his own meals, mend his own clothes, and fix his own hurts. If you're thirsty, he'll share his water with you; if you are hungry, his food. He'll even split his ammunition with you in the midst of battle when you run low. He has learned to use his hands like weapons and weapons like they were his hands. He can save your life - or take it, because that is his job. He will often do twice the work of a civilian, draw half the pay and still find ironic humor in it all. He has seen more suffering and death then he should have in his short lifetime. He has stood atop mountains of dead bodies, and helped to create them. He has wept in public and in private, for friends who have fallen in combat and is unashamed. He feels every note of the National Anthem vibrate through his body while at rigid attention, while tempering the burning desire to 'square-away' those around him who haven't bothered to stand, remove their hat, or even stop talking. In an odd twist, day in and day out, far from home, he defends their right to be disrespectful. Just as did his Father, Grandfather, and Great-grandfather, he is paying the price for our freedom. Beardless or not, he is not a boy. He is the American Fighting Man that has kept this country free for over 200 years. He has asked nothing in return, except our friendship and understanding. Remember him, always, for he has earned our respect and admiration with his blood.

 

So why be worried? What bothers me is the way we handicap the government when the private sector thinks nothing of data mining, profiling, classification etc... Why even retailers know what type of underwear you buy.

This discussion is dumb. This activity has gone on since America was just a thought. It is called intelligence gathering. How you use it is the real deal... not that it was gathered. To get away from this, would take moving to a deserted island, or China... and believe me, their intelligence dynamo knows EVERYTHING about their citizens...

Hey, go back to sleep and let the dogs lie where they lie. It might just save your life someday...

 

Romance, what area are you going to be in? That makes a difference with the people! I'm about an hour north of Charlotte but spent 3 yrs in the Raleigh area and know a few people from the Wilmington area. Your "big city" people are just that...for the most part. You know, they crap roses. I have to say that the majority of us North Carolinians are some of the best people you'll meet. Especially in the rural areas. You've always got your bad apples but you will experience "southern hospitality". You have mountains close and the beach close. Sun and snow. You will experience summer in the summer and with a short drive you can experience winter in the winter. I don't know how to "pm" and that stuff but I can give you about any info you want. Let me know what area (close city), if you're coming for school, etc. This thread is killing me. I'm going to post in the "where to ride" topic and title it "moving to North Carolina". That way if you have any questions we don't have to go through PAGES OF ENDLESS CHATTER THAT ULTIMATELY WILL ACCOMPLISH NOTHING. Later