Thanks for the words of wisdom Dragginbutt and 440EX026. Unfortunately, as it so often does, reality has kicked in and given us the perfect example of the points we have been trying to make. Sadly, in making these points, another Mother's son will not see his next birthday.


ADULT MAY FACE CHARGES AFTER 13-YEAR-OLD DIES IN ATV CRASH

March 5, 2007

LAKE COUNTY, FL

A Lady Lake, Florida man may face charges for giving a 13-year-old permission to ride his adult size ATV without a helmet. The teen was found dead under the four-wheeler a short time later Sunday afternoon.

Police were summoned to vacant property adjacent to a new subdivision about 3:15 p.m. Sunday by a caller who reported four-wheelers racing in the area. Responding officers found the 13-year-old boy motionless, pinned under a four-wheeler in a dry retention pond. Shortly after, friends of Jeremy Whitehead, 13, put flowers on the spot where he died. Even though ATV's are not permitted on the 50 acre property, neighbors said they've long complained about kids driving quads recklessly there.

Jeremy Whitehead was operating an adult size ATV when he died. That vehicle was seized as evidence by the Lady Lake Police Department who are investigating the accident as a "TRAFFIC HOMICIDE."

The chief said "It's illegal for someone that young to drive a four-wheeler of that size. He had no business being on that bike. He had no training, no safety gear on, no nothing! It was an accident just waiting to happen."

Police may now hold the ATV's owner, 29-year-old David Dixon, responsible for letting the teen take the deadly ride. Officers found Jeremy pinned underneath the four-wheeler when they came to the hill on East Primrose Lane after someone reported teens racing ATV's in the area. When police arrived, there were no other teens, just Jeremy, laying in the dry pond bed under the overturned ATV. He died at the scene.

Neighbors said Jeremy Whitehead was outgoing and always friendly. Jeremy used to live in Lady Lake, but six months ago he moved with his family to Sumter County, Florida. Police said he was back in the Lady Lake area to visit friends.

Other teens in the area said the hill and dry pond where Jeremy died is a popular place to ride and race ATV's. While the hill is public property, the field and pond just below the hill are privately owned. The owner will now put up "NO TRESPASSING" signs and has authorized police to arrest anyone caught riding on the land.

 

Good post, but I think that most were referring to just putting an end to the practice of those against the sport using the problem of our acceptance of "stupid" as a civilazation as a tool to show their view that the machine is the problem.

I like yourself would prefer a very different scenerio, but I doubt it would be publicly acceptable LMFAO

 

None of the traffic laws stop some from doing some very stupid things with cars on the highways.



I think training and saftey courses should be required of all new riders before they can purchase.
IMO it will take laws to get required education before purchasing a ATV.




Motorsports [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Draggin I am quoting your post because you sort of condensed most of this etc.

First off I am one of those who would sacrifice himslef etc in fighting for his rights (does get me into some trouble now and then believe me) and I truely believe all of this big brother and politically correct BS is slowing eating away at all of our rights, and even our country like a cancer. It causes many more problems than it solves, and simultaniously weakens the structure and values that make or made our country the best around while eliminating the ability of the citizens to effectively live their lives within the protection of the constitution and have an actual voice etc.

I could really bore the life out of you all with full explanations of the real much more serious problems that are behind our problems in our sport etc, but lets just sufice it to say that we as a whole are victims of a much larger plan to control everything and make everyone think there happy.

That said lets be clear that none of us (those with similar thinking etc) wants or wanted to see any additional restrictions, limitations, or cumbersome laws enacted in our sport, BUT were also inteligent enough to see that from all indicators (both the past and current ones) that the continued serious injurys and fatal accidents etc are going to be used against the sport in a negative way.

If you believe for one moment that that any if not all of the various anti atv, childrens, enviro, and other interested groups will not use the always misrepresented statistics to petition or lobby the govt to either ban, restict, or in some other way eliminate or limit our sport you must either not be listening or living in complete denial (I guess there is a chance that you could be one of those "stupid" people too lol).

I am not calling out any one person or group etc, and I think we can all make those decisions for ourselves anyhow.

What the intent of this thread was (and I think still remains ) is to take the bull by the damn horns and make damn sure we (those who participate in the sport) have a voice in the decision making process of any changes. I dont think anyone is writting their legislators asking for further restrictions etc, but I know we had better begin getting prepared to have a complete and solid plan to present (or push down their throats) if we dont want a bunch of anti atv bleeding liberal panzies pretending to be protecting the "poor children" who are out to shut everything down to suit their particular special interest etc.

If were not ahead of the game I know from history that most likely we will fall victim to the whims of those against us who have much more organized groups and agendas which will effect if not write the law of the land.

So no were not trying to give bubba a ticket or take away his atv because he doesnt want to wear a helmet, or likes to let his two twin 4 year olds ride his Grizzly together without any gear (personally I think thats his business, as well as his children are, but hey I believe in the constitution unlike so many of the people that get elected into office etc) but when his mistakes are taken out on the rights of the rest of us it only makes sense to be prepared in order to prevent a worse outcome in the long run.

If I was not clear on any of this feel free to ask for clarification..

 

440EX026,

Great post.


It's like how EEResQ compared this to gun control.

It is not the ATV that is the problem, it is the uneducated rider that is the problem.



Motorsports [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

yep if a person could really sit down and explaine to the anti-atv crowd on what we have to offer ,things could work things out .

 

Well it looks like some took my tongue in cheek response in the manner it was intended.

No I don't disagree with much of what was said... However I do to take issue with defining what "responsibility" really means. If it means endangering one's offspring, I think I have to speak out against that "right". As the thread says, STUPID KILLS. Nobody has th e"Right to be stupid when it puts a small child who is depending on them for protection in harms way. Plain not going to agree with you on that.

No I don't like the CPSC guidelines in their current form, for two reasons. They are out of date with children size versus old design mini ATV's/engine size, and they are not enforced consitantly across our nation. I don't have the answer for how to fix that for reasons previously stated in my earlier posts.

I don't agree with more legislation either, but if it is neccesary to encourage the think before you act syndrome sorely lacking today, then I guess I can live with it. God knows some child who would otherwise be laying in a hospital bed or worse probably would agree with that too.

Once the dirty deed is done, you can't take it back. You can put blame elsewhere, you can continue to think you have all the answers, you can continue to stand on your principles etc, but the one thing you can't do is bring a child back alive.

We all need to Stop playing God. I certainly can't step into his shoes either...

 

Yup, there are many ways to take the bull by the horns and get involved like you said. Join a club, sign up for groups that do represent our rights to ride. COntact your local and state officials and let them know your feelings. Believe it or not, they do listen. If enough public opinion is registered one way or another, you can bet their vote on legislation will be affected.

Not all ATV riders are bad. Although the media does seem to be one sided, because it sells papers. Give them a good story, and it may make the middle pages... Oh well, it takes time.

The key is getting involved. Doing nothing causes everyone to lose ground. ALl you have to do is look at how much riding area we have lost to realize the answer has to come from you and me.

 

Motorsports [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Those would be some pretty big shoes to fill.

I dont agree with the general idea above because I honestly think that the govt has overstepped their boundries when it comes to "family" and the results of countless school shootings, increased suicide, child abuse, and so many others seem to show just how poorly their thinking and actions have worked.

God (whomever or whatever you chose to believe he is etc) did not intend for an unrelated entity to be in charge of raising children, and running our families. If you like take a look for the areas that address this in whatever faith you have. If anything its very much the opposite of what we see today (not only here either) and the strongest emphasis would seem to be in the strength of the family, and not the removal of it. Enough on this for now though.

My point is that though I do agree community may have an obligation to help each other even when it comes to "stupid" or those in need it just isnt something that the govt needs to be involved in, and obviously messes up more than it helps.

If you dont accpet the idea of natural selection, or survival of the fittest etc your only kidding yourself, and even though our seccessfull civilazation has created a place where the weak can actually thrive (sort of a good thing I believe) you still can not remove the human element from it either.

In the case of many of the examples we have seen posted here where parental decisions have lead to, or contributed to the serious injury or death of a child its obvious that as children we are dependent on our parents, and all the regulation (legal, right, wrong, or entirely stupid itself) in the world isnt stopping the laws of nature from taking precedent.

Does this mean people should rejoice when some knuckle head makes his kid do something that ends killing him? of course not, but unless you know of a way to lobby our legislature to out law "stupid", and know how you will house a large part of the population (we would need lots of jails) there is just no sense in wasting our time, and countless tax dollars trying to cherry pick which knuckle heads to prosecute.

I am sorry but I just dont see any benefit in making a bad situation worse by charging the parents, and I dont agree that doing so will be a deterent to other "stupid" people. It may help the less challenged to better understand the situation more fully, and any real dangers involved, but it wont stop the next knuckle head from taking a ride double up with his or her infant etc and of course helmetless too.

We need to reach all those who need the benefit of the information being offered, but also have to accept that even though our own nature may cause us to want to help every single child etc there is a certain inherent responsibility of the parent to raise their children, and this is most important, and removing this responsibility (as has been slowly done over the last 30 or so years) only leads to new more serious problems.