Quote:

"I have to wonder how things would have been different in the most recent story above if the 32yr old mother had some experience or training before riding period not to mention with her daughter as a passenger. I admit it would have because there would have been safety gear involved, and either slower speeds or the passenger would have been watching from the back yard."

OK, I'll admit to being on the +side of 50 myself. However, I recall having to sit through about 6 hours of "Driver's Safety and Education" classes before I got my temps about 35 years ago. Then, at my own expense ($110 dollars of bush hog'n money earned on a McCormick - Farmall 140), I endured a one week long "Driver's Training" course. As I remember, it was "get the driver's training, or don't get a driver's license until your 18th birthday."

The day I brought my machine home, a Honda 500 Foreman, my wife asked my 17 year old daughter if she "wanted dad to take her for a ride?" My daughter's response was "Heck no, I want to drive!" My response was a simple one: "OK. But, first you go through the ATV Safety Course with me." I called the instructor and added her name to the roster. Two weeks later, in a steady pouring down rain, the two of us spent 5-1/2 hours operating ATV's in a field behind a powersports shop in southern Indiana. If the ATVSI training course was mandatory, BEFORE taking a machine home, we would be reading far fewer news articles like the one above.

I pray the 10 year-old child wasn't severly injured or disfigured as a result of the mother's negligence.


This one just hit my in-box, AND A SENSITIVE NERVE:

TWO-YEAR-OLD TODDLER HURT IN ATV ACCIDENT

EL PASO, Tx - A toddler is hurt in Northeast El Paso while riding an ATV Sunday evening.

It happened a little after 5pm near Sean Haggerty and McCombs when police say a 2-year-old boy was riding on the back of the All Terrain Vehicle, while his 10-year-old brother was driving.

According to police, the kids hit a rough patch of terrain and the toddler was thrown off the ATV, landing on his face. A passerby on another ATV found the child and called for help.

The boy was not wearing any kind of protective gear and was taken to the hospital with a serious laceration of his eye. The boy's older brother was not hurt.

Police tell ABC-7 they are pressing charges against the boy's father for allowing his sons to ride the vehicle.

Quote:

"The only way to prevent this would have been CHEMICAL CASTRATION of the father 11 years ago!"

Think about the math....

 

I agree with ya... no matter how good a person is, how much experience they have, it can happen to you.... I was an instructor prior to this last one. I knew better, I had practiced until I could do things in my sleep, but it didn't help on that one day in July. It sure ruined what had started out to be a great day to ride with my older boy.

 

Though I am deffinately not a fan of additional govt involvement in anything, know darn well they typically mess up most everything they get into no matter how genuine the intent, and basically just am not happy with any additional invasions into our lives etc I have to agree with this 110% and think it has about the best chance of working, and keeps the govt far enough out of things to give them a good chance at working.

For it to really work I think the govt needs to set up the legislation, and then let the atv community take over from there as those with the most direct experience and genuine interest in this working have the best chance of being successfull with it.

 

This is what I am refering to when I make claims on how the govt needs to stop intruding into our lives, and basically just messes things up.

First off until more recently there were not even any laws allowing charges like this to be filed, and further more it would not have even been accepted by the public until only 20 or 30 years ago either.

Sterilization, natural selection or whatever other natural or unnatural issue you want to bring up would dictate that not only will stupid people do stupid things, but most likely their offspring will be very similar to them as well. All the seperation of our children from their families and continued attempts to have schools raise our children have done little to change this (well except for the exceptions etc) and if you talk to some you will find may even blame the seperation on many of the common problems of today including school shootings.

Additionally just how will fining or jailing this obvious "stupid" guy help anyone except those who make a career of living off the "public fat", and I think we all would agree it will not help our sport in any way, and deffinately would not help this guy, his injured son, or family etc. I dont see anything positive that will come from legal proceedings of any kind and the only people who will benefit in any way are those writting the laws, enforcing them, hearing them in their court, and finally collecting all the fines etc.

I know not everyone will agree with this completely, but you have to agree or at least consider that this whole big brother thing is what is causing our sports problems in the first place (and most of our general lives too) , and if people were forced to accept responsibility for their own actions and decisions and all of these frivilious law suits were dismissed most of the unresponsible adults behind these and many other issues would be getting their crap together and the rest of the working people of our country would be paying a whole lot less in uncountable taxes to fund all this nonsense and those making a living off of it too.

I dont think we can change the country and the countless making a killing off the ways things have become, but I think we got a pretty good shot at making things right to a point in our sport in general.

 

ATV ACCIDENT CLAIMS LIFE OF 10-YEAR-OLD CHILD

ST. MATTHEWS, SC
Sunday, February 25, 2007

A 10-year-old girl from Bowman, SC died Saturday after the all-terrain vehicle she was riding on as a passenger lost control and tumbled over a ravine. The accident occurred on private property on Ringneck Trail, off Bull Swamp Road, west of St. Matthews in Calhoun County, just before 2 p.m. Saturday. By the time emergency officials arrived on the scene 10 minutes later, Allyson Morgan Ayers was unresponsive, according to the Calhoun County Coroner.

Reports say the 10-year-old Ayers, of Bowman, South Carolina, was riding on the back of a Kawasaki 360cc ATV driven by her 13-year-old brother when they got to close to a 13-foot ravine and he lost control of the vehicle.

The two children and the adult size off-road vehicle landed at the bottom of the ravine, with the four-wheeler striking Ayers. The Coroner said he is unsure whether the ATV kept rolling after it struck the victim or whether it was pulled off of her.

Ayers was transported by Calhoun County EMS to the Regional Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead. The cause of death was massive head trauma. It's reported that neither child was wearing a helmet at the time of the accident. Ayers? 13-year-old brother, who received minor injuries, was treated and released from the hospital.

Calhoun County Sheriff?s Department also responded to the scene.

 

EEResQ I get reports like that everyday. Sure some are repeats etc, but its tough to continue to read them, and most just get deleted.

The untold tragedy I see in this case is the 13yr old who will have to live with thinking, questioning or knowing his sister died from riding on the back while he was driving etc, and thats not something to take lightly.

I cant say what immediate responsibility the parents may take etc, but I know unless their unbelievably ignorant they must question just how responsible their decision for allowing this all to happen including not requiring the use of helmets and allowing dbl up riding is in the death of their daughter.

Its always sad and I think many just get by thru a healthy dose of denial etc, but just about every case of serious injury or death we hear of could have easily been someone who we know immediately. It can be very tough to think about when you consider this could have been a neice, or friends daughter etc, but even though the denial may be healthy for some I also think its what adds to the acceptance or lack of direct action by so many who may really know better.

I dont know just what can be done to make a difference with all those who just wont believe or accept that actions like those leading up to this tragedy (and so many like it) can provide the same sad results for themselves or their family etc, but it seems that somehow getting those who insist on twisting things in their minds that they or their children dont need to wear safety gear (like way too many still do) for whatever reason to believe it can happen to them.

 

Quote:

"I get reports like that everyday. Sure some are repeats etc., but its tough to continue to read them, and most just get deleted."

When reports like this become so commonplace that we (myself included) just delete them, the reality is this. Through our unintentional complacency we tacitly accept these tragedies as the norm. It's this "norm" that we need to change. That's what responsible members of the ATV community can do to reduce the number of serious injuries and deaths.

In the last 3 weeks alone, we've read of a mother allowing her 2-1/2 year-old ride an ATV intended for ages 6-to-12 year-olds. A father who allowed his 10 year old son to operate a 660cc UTV on a highway. Another father who allowed his 10-year-old son to take his 2-year-old little brother for a ride on an adult size ATV. A mother who was operating an ATV for the first time, with her 10-year-old daughter on the back. Parents who allowed a 16-year-old to take a 13-year-old and an 11-year-old for a ride on a 400cc ATV, at the same time. Now, parents who allowed a 13-year-old to take his 10-year-old sister for a ride on a 360cc ATV. Folks, this isn't even half of the off-highway vehicle accident reports for the period. But, the 6 events above resulted in 1 injured adult, 5 injured children and 4 children dead.

The statistics above have two common denominators:

1. Parents engaging in, or allowing unsafe ATV / UTV operation.

2. Children as operators or passengers on ATV's designed for one adult operator.

Quote:

"What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?"

We can push for uniform state level legislation in the following four areas:

1. Require participation in an ATV Safety Institute approved operator education course, before the machine leaves the dealer with a new operator. Experienced operators would present proof of completion at the time of purchase to satisfy this requirement. Dealerships would be required to have a certified in-house ATVSI instructor and courses offered at least once a week. As manufacturers and dealers profit from increased after-market sales, the safe return of customers would more than offset the cost.

2. While stopping short of licensure, upon request by law enforcement officials, require proof of completion of an ATV Safety Institute approved course, by all operators of ATV's / UTV's, regardless of age. This could be similar to the proof of insurance requirements already in place for motor vehicle operators.

3. Adopt the CPSC guidelines prohibiting underage operation of ATV's and UTV's not designed for the age group of the operator. Expand these guidelines and develop a "skills testing" procedure, administered by ATVSI instructors, for 14 and 15 year-olds who demonstrate the ability to safely operate larger machines; with a limit of 250cc. Also, establish a new limit of 500cc for 16 and 17 year-olds.

4. Include all motorized off-highway vehicles (OHV's defined as ATV's - UTV's - dirt and trail bikes, and other motorized OHV's), operated on or off roads, in traffic statutes <u>prohibiting operation without required training, underage operation, unsafe or reckless operation, and operating under the influence of alcohol or drugs</u> (already enforced in many states). Allow for enforcement of these statutes by state, county and local law enforcement, as well as wildlife, fish & game, forest and park rangers. Penalties should be progressively more severe for each subsequent offense.



Some who read this will scream about the invasion of our rights by big government; I agree. But, once you've heard the screams of an injured child, or three, it changes your opinion of what needs to be done to reduce the number of <u>kids killed</u> while participating in what we innocently call "a recreational activity."

 

Unfortunately, this comes under STATE law, not Federal. And getting all 50 states to agree on anything is like finding hens teeth. I agree training is necessary, and as a card carrying ASi instructor, I have to formally go along with what you say, however I will go out on a limb here and say that even I do not agree with ALL of the CPSC guidelines. I feel they are woefully out of date with today's environment, technology etc. They are in dire need of updating to be more realistic in sizing of machine to child body size etc. I also feel that ALL ATV manufacurers selling ATVs in the US should be required to meet the CPSC standards. This would affect the classification, and make it mandatory that machines would not be sold to idiot parents who want a machine for a 2 year old. This will bring in the China and Korean knockoffs. Who do NOT participate. If a parent LIES about it, it should carry a misdemeanor charge and stiff fine. Parents should be held accountable for their actions. Not knowing about it is no excuse in the eyes of the law. IF you weant government involvement, that is where lawmakers should concentrate their efforts. But the actual administration of the machines should be the responsibility if the manufacturers.

Another area where I'll throw down the guantlet to the makers is in the area of size and design of the machines. First off, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that wider is better. Make the kids machines wider period. End of discussion. That alone would greatly affect the injury stats. Second, make an intermediate frame sized machine to fit our larger children. NOTE I am not saying increase the engine sizes. Just the actual frame/bar height etc. Putting an 11 year old who is over 5 ft tall on a mini is a disaster waiting to happen. The machines are too small for many kids. With larger frames, they would be a better fit.

*HEY AFTERMARKET FRAME MAKERS, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE PROFITS HERE* Talk about opportunity knocking...

Another thing we cna easily do is make the kids wear all the safety gear available. AND set an example when we ride by wearing it ourselves. Helmets, eye protection, over the ankle shoes, long pants, longcleeve shirts at a minimum. Body armor, chest protectors, gloves, neck rols... All improve safety. Check out the Rockgardn offerings that are advertized here that are a great idea.

 

Excellent posts guys!!!!!

Were deffinately making solid progress.

I think we have brought up some great ideas and potential solutions, and also some of the potential problems related to them.

You all must have figured that I am not fond of increased govt involvement by now, but it should also be obvious that not only are we going to get just that in our sport no matter our desires, but that it would be to our advantage as a sport to be directly involved with as much of this as posible etc.

I think the suggestions made by eeresq are great, but like stated there are 50 states and getting this right isnt going to be easy.

One other thing I know we all must be very aware of is that if the rest of the country takes any ideas from around here on enforcement we had better make a very strong point of insisting that any offenses reamain minimal (dont allow things to get crazy like here) and that any new laws include wording that includes appropriate amounts of legal riding area, maintaining trails, their current amount, and even ensuring that any fees collected in any way will be used to maintain and improve the sport etc.

Maybe since I have seen so many millions dumped into enforcement, and countless new anti atv laws popping up all over the place around here with only 200 acres of legal riding area for nearly 500,00 enthusiasts in the entire state I have become sceptical etc, but I have also seen all the related negative problems that come with this.

Were in a battle for our entire sports future, and there are many fronts and groups who would love to see us gone. This is why we really need to be serious about getting this right.

 

So how will you police the under age use? Who will you put in jail and how much will you fine them, and will you take away the atv too? How far will you go?

IMO it will be easier for you all to just push to ban all ATVs and other off-road vehicles, because that is exactly the road you are traveling down.

Please let me know a few years in advance so I can sell my off-road vehicle before you ban ATV's,

Thanks,


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