To reinforce my comments here are a couple stories found in my email today.

ATV driver killed on reserve

Dude ranch visitor dies in ATV crash


None of these included children for a change (thank God as there have been enough) and both seem to have been some sort of util machine, but the scenerio is the same being poor decisions, lack of experience or training, and not having enough respect for just what can happen.

I know a lot of this is like monday morning quarterbacking etc, but the point seems to be that since people are not as afraid or respectfull of an atv (especially new riders) as they would be a dirt bike the results can be much worse than if they were.

If you read thru this thread it seems that mandating or thru some other method causing people to be educated is the prefered answer to the problem. It would seem that smarter riders and parents with a good amount of atv related knowledge (what would make them smarter [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] ) will cause a reduction in the numbers and severity of accidents and injuries.

 

I live and ride in West Virginia we are still able to use the roads to and from trailheads. I have noticed some of the deaths and major accidents on ATVs happen because riders on narrow back roads do not stay on their side in blind curves and when topping a hill with limited view. Car or SUV versus ATV guess who wins every time. Our group of riders sometimes 6 or more have came up with a signal when a car or truck is coming in the other direction the lead rider lets everyone know by holding his or her left hand straight up. This is then done back thur the riders so they have time to allow plenty of room to pass by. Same applys to people walking or on horseback. This seems to work well for us. Thought you my pass it along might just save someone trouble. My wife an I are in our fiftys and have ridden now for almost 3 years love it more every ride especially the Chairty Poker Runs. They are great P.R. for our sport.

 

People have been getting hurt when they crash on dirt bikes for years, but the numbers and severity of injuries are very different.END OF QUOTE-----

One big reason for the above quote is because ATV use out numbers dirt bike use by about 4-1 in the USA and that number continues to grow bigger with each passing year.

I REFUSE to blame the stupidity and ignorance of ANY operator on an ATV.. With that said, I EDUCATE my parents and youth on safe/responsable use of ANY type of ORV they choose to ride,and they darn well know the concequences of arrogant/stupid riding.

 

While this article reports the recent deaths of two more teens and serious injuries to a third, plus the death of a 5 year-old during a motorcross race, it also discusses almost all the relavent points.

OFF-ROAD FATALITIES FALLING, BUT 1 PRE-SCHOOLER and 2 TEENS KILLED IN NORTH CAROLINA IN A MONTH
Sat. April 28, 2007

"Youths' deaths shift focus on ATV laws."


Two Lincoln County boys have been killed in off-roading accidents in the past week, drawing new attention to the state's laws on all-terrain vehicles and dirt bikes.

Diego Alfaro, 14, died Monday from injuries he sustained during an ATV accident last weekend. Diego and another boy, who survived the accident, were riding through the woods in Lincolnton when they crashed into a tree.

Trooper Perry Cochran of the N.C. Highway Patrol said Friday the boys were violating state law in three ways: "They were on an adult-size ATV, not wearing helmets and were not supervised by adults."

A helmet might have helped save Diego's life, Cochran said. Cochran said he will speak with the Lincoln County district attorney Monday about whether to file charges against the ATV owner.

Nathan Schroeter, 15, died last Saturday after a dirt bike collision. Nathan, who was wearing a helmet, had collided with another teen rider on a private road behind his house in Vale.

Nathan's and Diego's deaths come just a month after 5-year-old Cody Fidler was fatally injured after an older rider crashed onto him during a motocross event in Cleveland County.

Overall, ATV fatalities involving children appear to be on the decline and fatal dirt bike accidents happen infrequently, said Tom Vitaglione, co-chairman of the N.C. Child Fatality Task Force. In 2005, seven children died in ATV accidents in North Carolina, down from 11 in 2004. Two children under 15 died in dirt bike accidents in 2005. Data for 2006 is not yet available.

In 2005, the Child Fatality Task Force, a legislative study commission, pushed through a state law regulating ATV use. The law, which went into effect in December 2005, prohibits children under 8 from operating ATVs and sets limits for the size of ATVs children use. The law requires that children be supervised by adults and requires everyone to wear a helmet. Safety experts say helmets greatly improve the chance of surviving a serious accident.

There is no state law regulating dirt bikes, but the Child Fatality Task Force may look into the two-wheelers, Vitaglione said.

In South Carolina, there are no laws regulating children's use of ATVs.

Vitaglione worries that a bill proposed in the N.C. House would weaken the law. The proposed bill would allow people over 16 to ride without helmets.

Rep. Karen Ray, R-Iredell, who co-sponsored the bill, points out that it doesn't change laws regarding children.

"I think everybody should be safe, but I think adults have a right to be adults," Ray said. "I believe there are certain boundaries for government in our personal lives."

Cochran, of the Highway Patrol, said the ATV law is difficult to enforce.

"We get a lot of calls, but usually by the time you get there they're gone," he said.

Vitaglione recognizes it's hard to enforce the law, but thinks laws are the most effective way to get people to change their behavior, he said.

ATV safety has also gotten the attention of officials at the national level. In June, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission staff recommended capping the maximum speed of ATVs intended for children and requiring manufacturers to offer free training.

The commission has not yet adopted those recommendations, said spokesman Scott Wolfson.

"Our desire is not to take ATVs away from people," Wolfson said. "It's to make the riding experience safer."

NC Law on ATVs

The law, passed in 2005, includes the following measures:

* No one under 8 may operate an ATV.

* Children under 12 may operate an ATV only under 70cc.

* Children under 16 may operate an ATV only of 90cc or less.

* Children under 16 must be supervised by an adult.

* You cannot have passengers on single-passenger ATVs.

* All ATV operators must wear a helmet and eye protection.

* ATV use on public streets and highways is prohibited except to cross.

For more information, visit www.atvsafety.org.

 

How to build an stupid/ignorant friendly ATV:

1) no mixing gas-check
2) at least 4 wheels- check
3) push button start- check
4) no shifting required- check
5) auto engaging 4 wheel drive- check
6) single lever brakes- check
7) how bout if we make enclosed side by sides- check
8) push button 4-wheel drive- check
9) THE LIST GOES ON AND ON AND ON!

 

440 man, I agree with you... but there is another very important piece that is missing in your response. Education and example plays a big part. Unfortunatley, the industry hasn't done a good job at highlighting the two. Sure we have classes available, if you can get one that is... but where the lack of data comes in is when the parents are standing in a show room with their check books out while their kids are drooling over that shiny new ATV and the sales guy is already spending his commision check in his mind. Before we get to that point is where parents need more information about ATV safety. We need to tell them about proper riding techniques, we need them to be educated about safety gear available, why their kids need it etc. We need to make them aware of local and federal rules and laws prior to spending cash. How to size the machine to their child.... how to evaluate their child's mental as well as phsical state to determine if they are mature enough to handle them.

Some of that data is available, but not readily given. ANd if you don't ask.. well the time to ask is NOT after your child is hurt or worse.

Setting a good example again requires that Parents/role models etc are educated as well... and they set the good example.

 

ATV's safer than dirt bikes? That debate will go forever... Here are a couple things to think about. First, a dirt bike leans into a corner, and thus potentially can be safer there... The ATV on the other hand, requires the rider to shift their body to change the center of gravity to get the same cornering result. Another way to do this is to gas it and slide the machine.

When you look at the physics of a crash, one point is very clear. On a dirt bike, when crashing, the bike and rider take different paths generally. Not so on an ATV. Both the rider and that several hundred pound machine tumble along the same path... so the potential of injury when crashing an ATV is MUCH higher.

Both machines have strengths and weaknesses depending on the riding conditions/environment. Both can be riden in a safe manner.... however, accidents can and do happen to even the most careful riders. The decision is yours to make. Choose your machine by the place you want to ride, and keep your heads screwed on tightly... and you should have a great experience on either.

I have had my jaw wired shut for 2 years because of dirt bike accidents.. and I have had multiple surgeries, and use a cane due to ATV's.. I still ride both... and will continue to do so as long as I can...

 

ONE STROUD TEEN DIES, TWO IN CRITICAL CONDITION AFTER ATV ACCIDENT
4/28/2007 4:29 PM


A Stroud area teenager was killed Friday night when he was thrown from his all-terrain vehicle, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol reported.

Langston Lee Gordon, 15, was driving a Honda four-wheeler at about 10:20 p.m. Friday on a Lincoln County road west of Stroud when he was thrown from the ATV. Gordon was pronounced dead at the scene.

Troopers said a second ATV with two other 15-year-olds was also involved in the accident, but the OHP is continuing to investigate.

Cody M. Stewart, 15, and Daniel Hodge, 15, both of Stroud, were taken to a Stroud hospital with head, neck, trunk and chest injuries. Both were listed in critical condition.

************************************************** **************

Anyone still of the opinion that we don't need better ATV SAFETY EDUCATION and MORE RIGOROUS ENFORCEMENT of traffic laws already on the books?

 

There have been some great posts recently that I want to reply to, but time is short tonight, and I really want to answer this one.

I have answers for those questions [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Just like I disagree with our politicians grouping things together in their bills like funding school lunch programs, making parking tickets a felony, and funding every one of their friends pet projects just so they can call out anyone who votes against it as being against children and their welfare etc I have a problem with grouping safety education (Which works) and increases in laws, inforcement and the nuiance tickets that come with them(which only harrass people and raise money for those pet programs etc)

Like many here I completely cringe everytime I hear of another serious accident, and especially the ones involving young children or those that were easilly avoidable etc, but I dont believe the answer is further restrictions (have we not seen enough of that already!!) but rather it lies in education. I dont want to sound like some whacko who is on the education bandwagon like so many seem to be today, but in our sport the difference between a fun day out on the trails, or horrifying one waiting for results from emergency surgery is not the threat of a ticket, but having proper training in the operation of the vehicle.

Maybe I am too proud of my country and what it means to be FREE, or maybe I have just seen nothing positive from continued restrictions legislated into our lives, or maybe its all this and the fact that a properly trained and prepared rider has a much lower chance of getting seriously injured. Add it all up, and just like we have been discussing all along its all about getting the experience and info we have etc into the hands of new riders and their parents.

Sure many people get hurt (draggin can be our poster child lol) and I wouldnt think I was riding to my ability or testing it etc if I never got a scrape, but my memories of learning to ride (both on 2 and 4 wheels) are fresh enough that I fully understand just how much less suspectable I am to a serious crash now than I was as an inexperienced rider.

Slice it, dice it, or do to this info as you wish, but the fact remains that there is little to be gained from new restrictive legislation, and everything to be saved from getting increased proper education to those starting out in the sport.

I originally decided to post this thread even though I knew there would be a potential negative side to it from the injury info that would come with it etc because I hoped (and still do) that it would grab the attention of a potential new rider or the parent of one etc and the info inside would scare them good and that they would learn from it and it would help keep at least one person from having to deal with a simple mistake that could cost them dearly.

Sure I have another larger motive as well, and thats to get all of us together thinking about how to make a difference, and maybe even find a way to get positive info into the "heads" of politicians so that they too can see the value of getting the right info into the right hands, and how many lives it can save.

I think we are all basically on the same page, and that we all (myself included lol) need a little tweeking before taking our ideas to our legislators so that we dont make things worse by someone twisting our words or editing out the parts with the value in them etc.

 

OK one more short one lol

Squeege I have to agree that the newer "idiot proof" machines do contribute to the problem, and just like my comments on the differences with dirt bikes being more diffilcult or intimidating appearing etc these easier to operate machines only widen the gap.

Muddy I agree with and like the idea you make on "concequences", but the problem seems to be getting this message or training to enough people.

Also arrogant riding confuses me, but still I guess I would rather encounter an experienced arrogant rider than one with no experience, training, or a clue etc that thinks they know it all.

I have ridden with slow novice riders who needed direction pr training etc, and extremely experienced racers who I had a hard time keeping up with, and have been at ease or comfortable in both these extremes because I have been lucky enough to have been with people who were willing or wanting to learn and listened well, and also those more experienced ones who were willing to share their knowledge as well. Point is that learning and improving your skills is a great experience, but you need the fundamentals to get started, and the opportunity to learn from more experienced riders who are able and willing to help you learn and improve, and not just lead you into trouble.

What I am preaching is getting this info to those who need it most!!