Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
#21
01-04-2007, 12:11 AM
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Originally posted by: squeege
440EX026......thanks for the big RED ALERT to all atv riders....or not
Originally posted by: 440EX026
Ok it seems many would agree that stupid = getting into trouble or hurt etc, but here is a little debate to this (though I agree to a point also) how do you describe or account for all the good riders who dont kill themselves who are as Forrest Gump would say "not a smart man".
Lets face it you dont have to spend 8+ years doing time to get your masters degree to operate an atv, and most of those who do seem to end up being injured are not old enough anyhow, BUT many of those who are of age, and those who are still under the guardianship of their parents etc who get into trouble seem to have a gapping hole right where all the time should have been spent learning about what they were getting into, and the safe and proper ways to use it.
I applaud those who have taken the time to pass the training instructor licence or training etc (like deanz400), and I have told many people to utilize their services as from what I have learned about the courses there is somethng to be learned by everyone (even the instructors learned a lot of those I know), and is a real must for any new riders, or their parents.
I had a friend who recently purchased an atv, and a MC for his daughter and son (7 and 4) and beyond the countless hours of info he was forced to take in he was pushed to their taking the course together, and trust me its not easy trying to pursuade or explain to a guy in his early 30's that currently rides a street bike, previously rode many miles on a dirt bike, and even put in a couple hours on an atv that he has to take the time and bring his kids and himself to a course. I hope enough of my bs sank in that he does it.
Even if you dont agree with OFC on his basic opinion on letting natural selection run its course in our sport, this is basically what seems to have been happening, and may also be a large part of why we are seeing so much resistance to our sport on all levels.
As much as I dont like to see uncle sam taken advantage of by his willingness to protect those described earlier etc I also dont expect him to stop his normal ways to help us out etc, and just like no one would have ever believed you wouldnt be able to smoke anyware you like, or would be issued summons's for not wearing a seatbelt, and a hundred more laws that have been smuggled into our system to "protect us" dont think sending the atv the way of the three wheeler isnt a possiblility either.
Ok it seems many would agree that stupid = getting into trouble or hurt etc, but here is a little debate to this (though I agree to a point also) how do you describe or account for all the good riders who dont kill themselves who are as Forrest Gump would say "not a smart man".
Lets face it you dont have to spend 8+ years doing time to get your masters degree to operate an atv, and most of those who do seem to end up being injured are not old enough anyhow, BUT many of those who are of age, and those who are still under the guardianship of their parents etc who get into trouble seem to have a gapping hole right where all the time should have been spent learning about what they were getting into, and the safe and proper ways to use it.
I applaud those who have taken the time to pass the training instructor licence or training etc (like deanz400), and I have told many people to utilize their services as from what I have learned about the courses there is somethng to be learned by everyone (even the instructors learned a lot of those I know), and is a real must for any new riders, or their parents.
I had a friend who recently purchased an atv, and a MC for his daughter and son (7 and 4) and beyond the countless hours of info he was forced to take in he was pushed to their taking the course together, and trust me its not easy trying to pursuade or explain to a guy in his early 30's that currently rides a street bike, previously rode many miles on a dirt bike, and even put in a couple hours on an atv that he has to take the time and bring his kids and himself to a course. I hope enough of my bs sank in that he does it.
Even if you dont agree with OFC on his basic opinion on letting natural selection run its course in our sport, this is basically what seems to have been happening, and may also be a large part of why we are seeing so much resistance to our sport on all levels.
As much as I dont like to see uncle sam taken advantage of by his willingness to protect those described earlier etc I also dont expect him to stop his normal ways to help us out etc, and just like no one would have ever believed you wouldnt be able to smoke anyware you like, or would be issued summons's for not wearing a seatbelt, and a hundred more laws that have been smuggled into our system to "protect us" dont think sending the atv the way of the three wheeler isnt a possiblility either.
Well wich is it? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Seriously we have to come up with some solid things beyond just plain old "stupid".
I see some things so far that look good (as far as potential causes to prevent) and even a couple ways to help prevent serious or fatal injury like approved training.
Also there have been some others like requiring licensing, but we see how well that works for auto's and MC's.
What worries me is how our entire sport will be effected by the worse case scenerio of going the path of the three wheelers, or even the lessor one of having stringent testing and age limits combined with all kinds of insane liabilities like what has happend to the jet ski industry.
Since I mentioned jet skis then I guess I also have to compare how this group got all kinds of grief when the mfg's made them easy and less intimidating and caused new unit sales to go thru the roof. I have to say it is nice not to have to contend with all the extra traffic like in the 90's, but because of similar problems to what we are seeing now in our sport there are many less places to use them, and more restrictions (many either most likely illegal or at least discriminatory) than I could even take a count of.
We got us a fight, and trying to ignore it in order to somehow keep it quiet isnt working.
#22
01-04-2007, 01:11 AM
Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
As a new rider with two young boys on quads, I would be curious to know specifics on these deaths. How many had no helmet? How many were youngsters riding full size quads? How many were stunt junkies jumping buses?
Its too easy to make blanket statements about what to do to help increase safety when there is scant details of what is actually causing these deaths.
Its too easy to make blanket statements about what to do to help increase safety when there is scant details of what is actually causing these deaths.
#23
01-04-2007, 12:59 PM
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
hmm. i would say having one of them learning keys would be a good thing on atvs as on PWC's but if the person chooses a wrong path and is limited on their power its potentially more dangerous. How do you educate someone on their cababilities and their machines capabilities in varied terrain without a lil trial and error? No one could have ever convinced me you can ride up veritical rock faces on a motorcycle... till i seen it done. nor would one look at many hills i climb or traverse and think that is possible. I grant basic safty instruction is a must. I would hope it comes from peers and not mandated by a governing body is all. personal responsibility goes a long ways.
red hornet. i would say 99% of ATV deaths are from people riding outside their limits and doing things they chose to do that they shoulnd't be doing.
Locally last weekend someone launched their atv off a logging road and into a tree and died. why? rider chose to ride faster than their abilities would allow. Is that the states problem? Is it the atv manufacturers problem? governments? NO NO NO
red hornet. i would say 99% of ATV deaths are from people riding outside their limits and doing things they chose to do that they shoulnd't be doing.
Locally last weekend someone launched their atv off a logging road and into a tree and died. why? rider chose to ride faster than their abilities would allow. Is that the states problem? Is it the atv manufacturers problem? governments? NO NO NO
#24
01-04-2007, 01:08 PM
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Here's one effort to point out stupidity in as nice as way as possible when it is witnessed. The WI DNR has a "Trail Ambassador" program. I don't know a whole lot about it, but there was a call for volunteers at our last club meeting.
You go through training to become a certified ATV Safety Instructor, and a second 4-hour session on how to handle different situations on the trail. The DNR reimburses your club for the hours you spend on patrol.
At our club meeting, the guy calling for volunteers emphasized a positive approach when dealing with ignorance on the trail. Instead of "don't do that," he suggested a "do this" scenario.
It might save a couple of lives, and you can accomplish something while enjoying the trails.
You go through training to become a certified ATV Safety Instructor, and a second 4-hour session on how to handle different situations on the trail. The DNR reimburses your club for the hours you spend on patrol.
At our club meeting, the guy calling for volunteers emphasized a positive approach when dealing with ignorance on the trail. Instead of "don't do that," he suggested a "do this" scenario.
It might save a couple of lives, and you can accomplish something while enjoying the trails.
#25
01-04-2007, 03:09 PM
Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Here is a link which contains results of a statistical study done by a professional researcher. It is about ATV accident rates compared to the accident rates of other sports or recreational activities:
http://www.heideninc.com/downloads/CPSC_ATV_hearing.pdf
It seems to indicate that ATVs are not so bad after all. According to this; vollyball is just as likely to put you in the emergency room as ATV riding.
http://www.heideninc.com/downloads/CPSC_ATV_hearing.pdf
It seems to indicate that ATVs are not so bad after all. According to this; vollyball is just as likely to put you in the emergency room as ATV riding.
#26
01-04-2007, 03:28 PM
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Originally posted by: way2fst
i didnt buy my quad new, can i still get the $100 for takin the course? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
i didnt buy my quad new, can i still get the $100 for takin the course? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
The problem around here is the absence of Instructors. I ended up going to the next Instructor south of me. Local instructor had a waiting list with no dates even scheduled. I would probably be still waiting 1.5 years later. The instructor was nice but she lacked knowledge of her loaner machines' (250EX) controls.
Up in the S.F. Bay Area, or East Bay Area (Dublin, CA, etc.) there's only one trainer. For a few million people. The waiting list is over a year.
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#27
01-04-2007, 03:28 PM
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Emergency Room Injuries per 100,000 Participants*
Football 2,292
Basketball 2,051
Wrestling 1,960
Boxing 1,777
Soccer 1,439
Baseball 995
Skateboarding 982
Bicycle Riding 979
Softball 897
Ice Hockey 879
Snowboarding 815
Roller Skating 596
Skiing 520
Snowmobiling 509
Martial Arts 496
Volleyball 476
ATVs 472
Racquetball 338
Scooter Riding 326
In-Line Roller Skating 280
Ice/Figure Skating 271
Roller Hockey 255
Weightlifting 253
Swimming (Heiden) 235
Tennis 221
Paintball 190
Fishing 144
Water Skiing 132
Swimming (CPSC) 128
Golf 123
Archery 83
Fencing 67
Exercising w/ Equipment 62
Scuba Diving 58
Bowling 39
Horseshoe Pitching 32
Badminton 30
Table Tennis 17
Billiards/Pool 12
Camping 6
.................................................. ....
Activity 100,000 Participants
Motor Vehicles 993
Passenger Cars 604
ATVs 488
With all the safety that goes into cars.. Pretty fascinating that idiots on atvs get injured less [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]
2002 Fatality Risk Estimates Per 100,000 Participants
Motor Vehicles 14.9
Passenger Cars 7.1
ATVs 2.7
also fascinating your almost 3 times more likely to die in a car. hmm.
Football 2,292
Basketball 2,051
Wrestling 1,960
Boxing 1,777
Soccer 1,439
Baseball 995
Skateboarding 982
Bicycle Riding 979
Softball 897
Ice Hockey 879
Snowboarding 815
Roller Skating 596
Skiing 520
Snowmobiling 509
Martial Arts 496
Volleyball 476
ATVs 472
Racquetball 338
Scooter Riding 326
In-Line Roller Skating 280
Ice/Figure Skating 271
Roller Hockey 255
Weightlifting 253
Swimming (Heiden) 235
Tennis 221
Paintball 190
Fishing 144
Water Skiing 132
Swimming (CPSC) 128
Golf 123
Archery 83
Fencing 67
Exercising w/ Equipment 62
Scuba Diving 58
Bowling 39
Horseshoe Pitching 32
Badminton 30
Table Tennis 17
Billiards/Pool 12
Camping 6
.................................................. ....
Activity 100,000 Participants
Motor Vehicles 993
Passenger Cars 604
ATVs 488
With all the safety that goes into cars.. Pretty fascinating that idiots on atvs get injured less [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]
2002 Fatality Risk Estimates Per 100,000 Participants
Motor Vehicles 14.9
Passenger Cars 7.1
ATVs 2.7
also fascinating your almost 3 times more likely to die in a car. hmm.
#28
01-04-2007, 03:40 PM
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Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
Originally posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
Nope. Only to the original purchaser. The manufacturer (or maybe the dealer) reports to ASI the machine and your information.
The problem around here is the absence of Instructors. I ended up going to the next Instructor south of me. Local instructor had a waiting list with no dates even scheduled. I would probably be still waiting 1.5 years later. The instructor was nice but she lacked knowledge of her loaner machines' (250EX) controls.
Up in the S.F. Bay Area, or East Bay Area (Dublin, CA, etc.) there's only one trainer. For a few million people. The waiting list is over a year.
Originally posted by: way2fst
i didnt buy my quad new, can i still get the $100 for takin the course? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
i didnt buy my quad new, can i still get the $100 for takin the course? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
The problem around here is the absence of Instructors. I ended up going to the next Instructor south of me. Local instructor had a waiting list with no dates even scheduled. I would probably be still waiting 1.5 years later. The instructor was nice but she lacked knowledge of her loaner machines' (250EX) controls.
Up in the S.F. Bay Area, or East Bay Area (Dublin, CA, etc.) there's only one trainer. For a few million people. The waiting list is over a year.
#29
01-04-2007, 04:30 PM
Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
im 16 and i learn from my dad how to ride he rode atv,dirtbikes,sportsbikes.
he showed me the right way to ride and got me a helmet and boots to ride.
also i lreaned to ride were the are was no quads for miles on a beach after riding at the beach for 6 months we found a place to ride were their is 40 quads and 20 dirt bikes out of the 60 riding 10-20 have no helmet the people without them are the ages of 18-22 their was many crashs thank god no injurys but they crash by racing showing off or going up near vertical hills that 30ft tall.
he showed me the right way to ride and got me a helmet and boots to ride.
also i lreaned to ride were the are was no quads for miles on a beach after riding at the beach for 6 months we found a place to ride were their is 40 quads and 20 dirt bikes out of the 60 riding 10-20 have no helmet the people without them are the ages of 18-22 their was many crashs thank god no injurys but they crash by racing showing off or going up near vertical hills that 30ft tall.
#30
01-04-2007, 05:12 PM
Stupid Kills? or What can the ATV community do to reduce the number of serious injuries?
OFC if your really interested contact ASI they are always looking for more instructors ,I average about 4 classes during the year ,It's a little ridiculas to try and geta a class together and have 7 out of 8 Bail on you . Were supposed to have a minumum of 2 students ,
We do get paid for each student not a huge amont of money ,but a fun part time job ,doing something I really think that needs to be done .
OFC there are several people out there that do make a living out of giving classes ,.
I recently lost my training area ,it was at a local dealership and the owner just got snotty with me and told me I no longer could have my classes there .but hopefully I have another dealer that wants me to teach classes at his place .
Redhornet I get figures from my state club ATVAMN AND OVER THE LAST SEVERLE years the conclusion I came to was the people that were injured or killed were
either to young on to big of a machine ,
or older with not much experience
or late teens or early 20's with alcohol involved ,usually with no helmet ,
\
and the Number one factor I see is none of them have ever had a ATV safty course .!!!!