<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I believe it comes down to WI getting greedy. They get a lot of riders from MN and IL and they can get more $ out of you if you have to sit in a class for a day and pay your fee. There has always been this give me you money attitude towards out of staters.</end quote></div>

I don't think it is greed as the cost is only $10. The classes are for residents anyway. If you live out of state you just need to pay the $18 non-resident trail pass fee. If you are from Illinois or Michigan then you must register in WI but is only $30 for two years, again, hardly greedy.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>The Department of Natural Resources is looking for motivated people who have an interest in recreational safety and who are willing to donate a few hours of their time each year to teach safety education classes in your area. Becoming a volunteer instructor is a great way to help save lives, prevent injuries, meet people in your community, and positively influence the attitudes and actions of other resource users.</end quote></div>

No wonder there are so few classes scheduled. How many volunteers are that motivated to do the training for nothing? Doh - I guess all of them since that's why they call them volunteers.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>General Age and Safety Certifi cate Requirements
ATV safety education certifi cation is required for all riders (residents and
nonresidents) who are at least 12 years old and born on or after January 1, 1988. Safety Certifications issued from another state or province of Canada will be accepted. Riders must carry their certifi cate while operating.
The ATV Safety Institute (ASI) generally offers ATV safety training to ATV
owners after the purchase of a new ATV. ASI certifi cates are not valid in
Wisconsin unless they were obtained in another state or province that uses ASI as their official, state ATV safety certifi cation program.</end quote></div>
The non ATVSI training cert requirement is for residents only.

Here's the link to the atv laws laws

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Nonresident OHV Permits
All vehicles operated off-highway on Public Lands in California are required to be street-licensed or registered as an off-highway vehicle (OHV). If you are visiting California from another state and your vehicle does not have current registration from your home state, you must purchase a California Nonresident OHV Use Permit (sticker) before you go off-roading."</end quote></div>

California subscribes to a reciprocity agreement with other states but allows any currently registered ATV from all other states to be ridden in California off-highway. I know Oregon accepts Cal stickers.

 

"California subscribes to a reciprocity agreement with other states but allows any currently registered ATV from all other states to be ridden in California off-highway. I know Oregon accepts Cal stickers."
Windtrader

I was wondering if ATV laws were included in the Interstate Compact on Reciprocity.

So, as my state (Kentucky) presently does not require registration or training certification, in CA a "California Nonresident OHV Use Permit" is all that is required. However, in WI my ATVSI card (if I can find it) might be acceptable for meeting their safety training requirements, and I need to pay the $18 non-resident trail pass fee to ride.

Sounds like someone is going to make a bundle of buck$ writing the "Handbook on States ATV / OHV Laws and Regulations for off-road vehicle operators for the year 20_ _."

Kind-a adds a little push toward answering the question:

#2. So, "How long after the introduction of the modern all terrain vehicle (ATV) will it be before states begin to develop UNIFORM regulations concerning ATV operator qualifications (age, training, etc.), and ATV design safety standards?

 

Update on training cert issue
I reread further into the WI ATV laws (link posted above) and the whole issue of ATV training certs is applicable only to youth. Adult riders, resident or non-resident, don't need any cert to ride.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>However, in WI my ATVSI card (if I can find it) might be acceptable for meeting their safety training requirements, and I need to pay the $18 non-resident trail pass fee to ride. </end quote></div>
Two separate issues. Training certs for residents/non-residents of adult age are not required in WI so nothing to do there. The trail pass is needed to obtain registration that is recognized because you lack one since KY does not have ATV reg requirements, same as IL and MI.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I was wondering if ATV laws were included in the Interstate Compact on Reciprocity. </end quote></div>
A quick Google on that and .... YOU go figure that one out. My own view was on driving licenses and that you can drive in any state with a valid license from another state. I guess there are many such Compacts for everything, including child custody, insurance responsibilities, professional licensing, all things legal, extradition, and nearly every other esoteric legal topic one would never thing twice about unless getting snagged into one through some form of interstate travel.

And back to safety, topic if this thread, just keeping OT. According to the ATV laws of WI, this is one of those you mention that allows all sorts of use on public roadways. You can travel for agriculture use, fishing or hunting access, maybe others. What a joke, this is a loophole as big as a Mac truck. Basically you can ride nearly where ever you want. The icing on the cake is there is no helmet requirement. You had those ATV fatality stats. WI must be one of the higher fatality states, although the riding season is shorter so maybe that might keep raw numbers down but I'm sure on a per mileage, per rider, per riding day, or some such measure that accounts for actual use, the stats must be high.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>#2. So, "How long after the introduction of the modern all terrain vehicle (ATV) will it be before states begin to develop uniform regulations concerning ATV operator qualifications (age, training, etc.), and ATV design safety standards? </end quote></div>
I am prepared to answer this now. NEVER in my lifetime. The only way this is going to happen if special interest back such an effort and they are only going to do this unless they are pressured into doing so. The proponents would be that portion of ATV riders who are clued in enough to push for uniform adequate safety standards, groups such as yours and those with safety, rather than open access, on their agenda. Frankly, these numbers are very small and also financially disabled to mount any kind of winning campaign, particularly when put next to what the commercial powersports industry can mount.

I believe one of the few times the common good was achieved was the US-wide banning of 3 wheel ATV. They were so egregiously and inherently dangerous, they killed way too many people which caught the attention of those beyond the normal public purview. Probably made a few good national news stories about "killer 3 wheel mini bikes" that got a hot poker in the *** of both the industry and government and forced them to do something to take the heat off and make the problem go away.

The fact some states don't even require helmets for ATV use shows the lack of enough people seeing the problem and caring enough to mandate legislation to protect the dumb *** Joe Public. I don't know if helmets are even required for motorcycle riders in all states, do you know? If that is not happening then we will never see similar mandates for ATVs in a hundred years!

 

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]"I am prepared to answer this now. NEVER in my lifetime. The only way this is going to happen if special interest back such an effort and they are only going to do this unless they are pressured into doing so. The proponents would be that portion of ATV riders who are clued in enough to push for uniform adequate safety standards, groups such as yours and those with safety, rather than open access, on their agenda. Frankly, these numbers are very small and also financially disabled to mount any kind of winning campaign, particularly when put next to what the commercial powersports industry can mount."
Windtrader

PLEASE, no one interpret what I am about to say as promoting the use of seat belts on ATV's!

However, an example of federally mandated changes in MV design for the express purpose of passenger safety that have occurred in my lifetime, please examine "The History of Seat Belt Development."

While Volvo produced the first safety belts in 1849, the first US patent for an automobile seat beat was issued in February 1885. However, it was another 70 years before clued in groups of the era began to push for mandatory installation and use.

In 1955, the year my footprints first appear in the mud, the National Safety Council, the American College of Surgeons, and the International Association of Chiefs of Police voted to support installation of lap belts in all automobiles. Also, the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) appointed a Motor Vehicle Seat Belt Committee to study seat belt design issues.

Fast forward 12 years:

In 1967, the NHSB (now NHTSA) issues initial Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards 208, 209, establishing uniform standards for lap and shoulder belts in front outboard positions, lap belts in all other positions to take effect 1/1/68 and 3/67, respectively.

Fast forward another 39 years:

In 2006, "Click It or Ticket" is forced on all 50 states through the threat of withdrawal of federal highway dollars from states that do not enact mandatory seat belt useage and enforcement laws.

So, it took 51 years from the infancy of the seat belt movement to their mandatory use. Using this history as an example of how we in this country deal with issues of MV safety, let's apply it to ATV's.

If we use 1969 as our modern ATV introduction year, and 1988 as the year we issued our first CPSC safety directives concerning ATV's, then we may see uniform regulations concerning ATV operator qualifications (age, training, etc.), and ATV design safety standards somewhere around the year 2020.

I intend to still be riding about that time. How about you all?

By the way, if you didn't see this link posted back in May, here it is again.
"Feds let ATV industry off with a warning!"
It will bring anyone up to speed on the history of ATV safety, or lack thereof.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>f we use 1969 as our modern ATV introduction year, and 1988 as the year we issued our first CPSC safety directives concerning ATV's, then we may see uniform regulations concerning ATV operator qualifications (age, training, etc.), and ATV design safety standards somewhere around the year 2020. </end quote></div>
You ARE kidding right? I just did not see the emoticon to validate this statement. If not, what kind of dope do they grow in KY. That brand of loco weed must be a galaxy away from the hemp y'all make rope from.

Dude, you just referenced that article again. It screams out there will NEVER be any significant edicts from the Feds. It reads as a textbook case of how the motorsport industry is adequately funding the lobbying effort to keep the Feds out of their business. They can throw charts up all day log and show how "safe" ATV riding is and it is relative to the horrible early days. They can prove how diligent they have been to design safety in and also offer unprecedented and unparalleled commitment and industry funding of promoting safe use. What other industry offers a product where they offer free professional training AND a real cash in the pocket incentive to attend training. Compared to other "easy pickings" the department needs to go after ATVs are safe for a long time.

They can also say they are sel-policing safe ATV design. They hire the ATV expert engineer, paid by the industry, to produce reports how unsafe the crap Chinese ATVS are and pushing to ban them. Why on earth are they doing that? They want to terminate the flow of product as it accomplishes two major goals. Cut off potentially huge competition and keep fatality stats in check. I've not seen hard objective facts showing Chinese ATVs are associated with a higher fatality rate but if you find something like that, it just supports what I am saying.

EEResQ and other like you are pursuing safer riding for altruistic purposes and I applaud and support this. However, the gears grind along in Washington fed on the grease produced by special interest lobbying to support the agenda that benefits the hand that feeds it. This just is the way the Washington agenda is set and works.

Another angle to influence policy involves gaining favor of large voter blocks. Politicians readily take up causes if it gets them votes but the ATV community at large is totally scattered and has proven it can not develop sufficient mass and inertia to effect much change that benefits the user base.

Just look at open access on public lands. If ever there is an issue that ATV riders should get up in arms about is having a place to ride yet the trend over the years clearly shows that access continues to be reduced and with the recent Federal road inventory taking place, this initiative has the potential to reduce public riding access to a degree never seen before. Honestly, if you want votes, are you going to take up the cause of ATVers or the Sierra Club and other pro-environmental groups. It probably stacks up 500 to 1, likely more.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Of the fifty states, only 4 are 100% helmet law free! :
Colorado, Illinois, Iowa and New Hampshire</end quote></div>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>19 States have helmet laws that exempt adult riders, riders over the age of majority -- 18 years old and over. Those states are:
Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Maine, Minnesota, Montana, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Utah, Wisconsin and Wyoming.</end quote></div>

OK. You got me on a roll now. Everyone knows that wearing helmets saves lives and serious maiming, especially for motorcycle riders and even bicycles yet nearly half the country does not mandate something as basic as wearing helmets.

A common nationwide ATV safety mandate just not going to happen, EVER. One last reason, just look at where the CPSC is spending it's limited resources. The bruhaha over lead in Chinese toys is only one face of the cube. What about all the problems over the nation's increasing food supply coming from foreign sources. My god, if you eat any domestic seafood products you are nuts. Nobody has a clue what the food pellets were made from and who knows that taints that stuff that gets into fish and shrimp we eat by the boatload. Then there are the antibotics they feed them to keep the alive in the putrid bacteria infested water. I could go on but this is clearly OT for this thread. But the main point is these are far more serious and pervasive concerns that affect basically every American. And of course there is the increasing resources going to combat terrorism. Damn, just shut me up. Never mind, I just lost my voice anyway. :-)





Just send me a a few dubes of your dope, the good stuff. :-)

 

Ahhh..., obviously you did not catch my tongue in cheek hint of sarcasm. Although I am an optomist, and I do believe the automobile industry was a much more powerful lobby group during that period of increasing safety regulations than the ATV manufacturers are today. Besides, there's actually a profit motive in making the activity safer for everyone. Unfortunately, at this moment in history, I believe this fact is clouded during the chase for profits as the industry is in full boom mode.

Just as the NSC, AMA and IACP came togather and called for safer MVs in the mid-50's, today similar lobby groups are calling for safer ATVs and stronger regs to reduce the tragic number of kids killed. (I just read the 12 year old girl in FL was taken off life support after her ATV accident last weekend.) Does the CPSC have a plate full, yes! But lead paint on toys harms kids over a period of years, and we've recognized the problem for almost 50 years now. On the other hand, the tramatic acceleration / deceleration syndrome resulting from high speed ATV accidents kills kids almost instantly, and we're finally trying to do something about it after only 38 years.

No dope; but I do have a ready supply of Eastern Kentucky Mountain Nectar on hand.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Besides, there's actually a profit motive in making the activity safer for everyone. Unfortunately, at this moment in history, I believe this fact is clouded during the chase for profits as the industry is in full boom mode. </end quote></div>Well, every commercial industry is inherently in a constant chase for profit, across the board, so I respectfully disregard this aspect of your argument. I do agree the auto industry, in cahoots with the oil barons, did a magnificent job of destroying an established commuter rail industry as well as building cars as fast as they could.

I don't think we can use this as a relevant comparison primarily due to the publics general lack of awareness and knowledge about the amount of technology that could be utilized to reduce an unsuspecting excessive rate of auto injury and fatality. During the 30-40-50, many people were just getting a car for the first time in their lifetime, often having little experience with even how to drive one, much less safely, and even less aware of the potential areas for improvement. And even though the late 60's became the tipping point for cars to get safer through seat belts and tempered glass, etc., it is still today a high priority for LEAs to get people to buckle up. We are talking multiple generations to get this to become second nature. My kids buckle up religiously like drones. Unfortunately, I am your mid 50's model, and still don't bother if I am making a quick trip to the market.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>So, it took 51 years from the infancy of the seat belt movement to their mandatory use. Using this history as an example of how we in this country deal with issues of MV safety, let's apply it to ATV's. </end quote></div>I'll argue that the general public and ATV riders are many times more knowledgeable about motor vehicles and the hazards, safety, and actions to seek out safe vehicles to purchase and ride them safely. Virtually everyone in America drives a car as a matter of practical necessity. So you get everyone from 16 year old pups to 90 year olds with various amounts of visual and motor control deficiencies that make them unsafe to themselves and others.

ATVs on the other hand are not a necessity nor "forced" into driving them as part of conducting everyday life. They are purely for pleasure. (I am discounting commercial use of ATV in industry such as farming as I am taking the assumption there is responsible riding and training in place to effectively make them as safe as a work auto.) The demographic is quite different in that ATV riders are biased toward the trill-seeking and generally less caring about conservative subjects such as not becoming injured or worse. This is a fact. Just go to any busy track or park and see how fast these things travel and flip and crash. It is inherently much more dangerous than cars. So, this is a self-selecting demographic that is inherently and knowingly more risk-tolerant, quite different than the general public and the amount of risk they accept when driving a car. Additionally, the population outside of active ATV rider doesn't give a damn shiiii about whether ATV rider smash into each other every day in some off road park, miles from public purview.

So, we are left with the ATV population who basically accept an inherently greater degree of risk and understanding that they are most likely to get at least bruised up or take a fall someday as a given. Every day they ride, they seem some fools flying through the air, sometimes their own fault, sometimes no fault of their own.

This group of people is just not going to self-regulate to a satisfactory level of safety riding standards. Industry is only going to accept actions that do not harm sales. One could argue they put labels on the fenders that say a 90 cc should not be ridden by a 15 year old, 6' 3" and 225 pounds, then turns away a sale on a quad larger than a 90 like a 250, 400? No frickin way.

The main difference is the bulk of the population who is most directly impacted by using ATVs does not want or support anything other than recommended safety training. I would like some specifics on the lobby groups who are actively supporting mandated ATV safety on a national level. I know there are groups out there who do support such things but not getting any real money to push it through. I don't doubt you can find examples where recreational power sports manufacturers offer some support, even financial to these folks, but I assert the amounts are small and just window dressing/lip service fees.

Beyond the directly involved parties, manufacturers and riding consumers, who is left. Well, like I said, the general public don't give a rat's *** so they are going to be bystanders at best. The other group who has a stake in the industry is the government agencies and do already take fees to license the vehicles. If anything, they will push hard to keep increasing fees, as California just did in a significant way. They at least doubled if I am correct, starting next year. They may try to squeeze for more $$ by going after ATV training cert fees but I just don't see it netting enough to take up the fight. My belief is the big money does not support mandated training and likes it just the way it is.

And I did not see your response to mandated helmet use for motorcycles. I still offer this analogy holds much more relevance to ATV than equating auto and ATVs.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>No dope; but I do have a ready supply of Eastern Kentucky Mountain Nectar on hand. </end quote></div>Well, that figures you damn hillbilly! PM me your address and I'll pop a few hybrid seeds for you to get growing in them hillbilly hills.

And very sad to hear about the girl who died. So both the driver and the young girl were killed as a result of this accident? And so easily avoided and you know what. This would have happened even if they had received mandated ATV riding certificates, not voluntary earned ones.

Do you have a link to the national ATV accident database? I would like to get some better insight to what is actually happening.

Thanks

 

"ATVs on the other hand are not a necessity nor "forced" into driving them as part of conducting everyday life. They are purely for pleasure. (I am discounting commercial use of ATV in industry such as farming as I am taking the assumption there is responsible riding and training in place to effectively make them as safe as a work auto.) The demographic is quite different in that ATV riders are biased toward the trill-seeking and generally less caring about conservative subjects such as not becoming injured or worse. This is a fact. Just go to any busy track or park and see how fast these things travel and flip and crash. It is inherently much more dangerous than cars. So, this is a self-selecting demographic that is inherently and knowingly more risk-tolerant, quite different than the general public and the amount of risk they accept when driving a car. Additionally, the population outside of active ATV rider doesn't give a damn shiiii about whether ATV rider smash into each other every day in some off road park, miles from public purview."
Windtrader"

Here's the link you requested.
nullhttp://www.atvsafety.gov/stats.html

I don't have the time to address all the issues you raise. And, we actually agree on many of these issues. Unfortunately, the language barrier between the Midwest and the "Land of Fruits & Nuts" sometimes garbles communications.

Addressing just the quote above:

A. "ATVs on the other hand are not a necessity nor "forced" into driving them as part of conducting everyday life. They are purely for pleasure.

In the 5 states with the highest number of fatalities (WV, KY, PA, NC and FL) for the years 2002 through 2005, each year an increasing number of ATV riders and passengers are killed while operating off-road vehicles on local, county and state highways. While not "forced" to ride on roads, they are not on these highways for pleasure, but out of the "economic necessity" of cheap transportation in less affluent regions of these states.
"Deaths Associated With ATVs By State"

B. "(I am discounting commercial use of ATV in industry such as farming as I am taking the assumption there is responsible riding and training in place to effectively make them as safe as a work auto.)"

Your assumption that personnel using ATV's in farming and industry have received responsible training is incorrect. In fact, in the same 5 states cited above, farming was already the most dangerous profession before the upsurge in ATV popularity that accelerated in the 1990s began swelling the toll of death and injury rates. Additionally, if we are just now beginning to provide ATV / UTV operator training to "Emergency Responders" (those who are called upon to operate off-road vehicles under the most stressful conditions), where do you think that leaves the rest of the industries? From my personal observation, the only employers requiring ATV operator training do so after OSHA has taken a big wet bite out of their butts, after the fact.
"Kentucky ATV Fatalities By County 1984 - 2005"

C. "Additionally, the population outside of active ATV riders doesn't give a damn shiiii about whether ATV rider smash into each other every day in some off road park, miles from public purview."

The point you are missing is that only a very small percentage of fatal ATV accidents occur at off-road parks. While I do not have the break down nationally, again, in the 5 states with the highest number of ATV fatalities from 2002 to 2005 (a total of 614 deaths collectively out of 2,252 for the period nationwide = +27% of the overall total), these deaths are occuring mostly on or adjacent to roads, in fields and on private and public uncontrolled trails.

Finally, we do give a damn. Many of the people I know who are actively involved in the push for safer ATV's, more and better ATV operator training, and stricter enforcement of laws already on the books (as they apply to ATV / UTV operation) weren't even ATV riders when they started to look into the problem.

Groups like:

American Association of Pediatrics,
American College of Emergency Physicians,
American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons,
American Public Health Association,
National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians,
National Association of Search and Rescue,
American Association for Agricultural Education,
All-Terrain Vehicle Safety Institute,
National Off-Highway Vehicle Association,
Natural Trails and Waters Coalition,
Consumer Federation of America,
Concerned Families For ATV Safety,
Injury Control Research Center of WVU,
Center for Rural Emergency Medicine,
and virtually every state's DNR agency,

ALL CARE very much.

FYI:
West Virginians are Hillbillies
Tennesseans are Ridge Runners
Kentuckians are Briar Hoppers

As one who resides in the "Land of Fruits and Nuts"
it's important to have your geographical slurs correct.

 

Young Girl Injured in ATV Accident in Long County
Friday, Nov 16, 2007 - 05:09 PM


A 7-year-old girl is recovering from an ATV accident this afternoon.

Long County officials tell us it happened around 4:30 at mile marker 8 on US Highway 84 just outside of Ludowici, Georiga.

We're told the girl's father was driving his pickup on the roadway and his daughter was following close behind on a four-wheeler. Authorities say the man stopped ahead of her, but the little girl didn't see him and struck the back of the truck.

The impact forced her head to hit the tailgate of the truck, but fortunately she was wearing a helmet at the time of the crash.

Emergency crews say the girl was in and out of consciousness complaining of head injuries.

She was transported via Lifestar helicopter to Memorial Hospital in Savannah as a precautionary measure. Her condition is unknown at this time.

WSAV

***********************************

I rest my case. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]

 

Nice response. I suggest we close this chapter and move on to another aspect of the thread's main purpose. Before leaving this debate, I'd like to thank you for your professional, well informed, and fact based comments. It's refreshing to see more science and fact based rather than personal bias, opinion, or emotion based replies. I respect your comments immensely and hope we continue having lively, informative, and educational dialog, all in the hopes of reducing unnecessary AT related deaths.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>In the 5 states with the highest number of fatalities (WV, KY, PA, NC and FL) for the years 2002 through 2005, each year an increasing number of ATV riders and passengers are killed while operating off-road vehicles on local, county and state highways. While not "forced" to ride on roads, they are not on these highways for pleasure, but out of the "economic necessity" of cheap transportation in less affluent regions of these states. </end quote></div>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>our assumption that personnel using ATV's in farming and industry have received responsible training is incorrect. In fact, in the same 5 states cited above, farming was already the most dangerous profession before the upsurge in ATV popularity that accelerated in the 1990s began swelling the toll of death and injury rates. Additionally, if we are just now beginning to provide ATV / UTV operator training to "Emergency Responders" (those who are called upon to operate off-road vehicles under the most stressful conditions), where do you think that leaves the rest of the industries? From my personal observation, the only employers requiring ATV operator training do so after OSHA has taken a big wet bite out of their butts, after the fact.</end quote></div>

Maybe out your way, there is still a lot of "family", not corporate farming like here in California. I knew farming was very dangerous and many younger children work with equipment and do work that is dangerous, so it's no surprise ATV are one more way they can get hurt, maimed, and killed.

My take on satisfactory ATV operations on farms and those who need them for work is based on my personal recent experience taking the ATVSI safety course in California. The instructor stated he did a fair amount of training to employees working on the large commercial farms in California who use them in their routine work duties. I have no doubt that all well capitalized farm enterprises are going to mandate the training for liability purposes if nothing else. One of the students in my class was attending as part of his job. He is a scientist/lab tester who collects samples on farmland for insecticide levels or some such thing. So, I formulated my opinion that ATV safety in farming was in check. I was not thinking about the family farms, the venue of high accident rates.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>The point you are missing is that only a very small percentage of fatal ATV accidents occur at off-road parks. While I do not have the break down nationally, again, in the 5 states with the highest number of ATV fatalities from 2002 to 2005 (a total of 614 deaths collectively out of 2,252 for the period nationwide = +27% of the overall total), these deaths are occuring mostly on or adjacent to roads, in fields and on private and public uncontrolled trails. </end quote></div> Yeah, slap me on that one as I forgot you mentioned the high fatality rate from road use.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>In the 5 states with the highest number of fatalities (WV, KY, PA, NC and FL) for the years 2002 through 2005, each year an increasing number of ATV riders and passengers are killed while operating off-road vehicles on local, county and state highways. While not "forced" to ride on roads, they are not on these highways for pleasure, but out of the "economic necessity" of cheap transportation in less affluent regions of these states. </end quote></div> The rationale for the cause of the problem with on-road ATV use is plausible but does not make it acceptable or allowable in any fashion. Otherwise, the whole country ends up in anarchy screaming they can do things, right or wrong, just because they are "poor".

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>American Association of Pediatrics,
American College of Emergency Physicians,
American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons,
American Public Health Association,
National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians,
National Association of Search and Rescue,
American Association for Agricultural Education,
All-Terrain Vehicle Safety Institute,
National Off-Highway Vehicle Association,
Natural Trails and Waters Coalition,
Consumer Federation of America,
Concerned Families For ATV Safety,
Injury Control Research Center of WVU,
Center for Rural Emergency Medicine,
and virtually every state's DNR agency, ,</end quote></div>Impressive list but much political clout and capital have they spent on effecting legislation and enforcement for safer ATV use. The problem I see with this list is many offer assistance to many other people beyond the ATV community and there is not enough resources to go after every recreational sport that possesses a high danger factor.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>#2. So, "How long after the introduction of the modern all terrain vehicle (ATV) will it be before states begin to develop UNIFORM regulations concerning ATV operator qualifications (age, training, etc.), and ATV design safety standards? </end quote></div>

To summarize and conclude:

* I believe a great deal can be done to reduce ATV fatalities.
* I fully agree there is sufficient empirical data collected proving a significant portion of the fatalities occurs on public roads, not off-road.
* There will never be uniform regulations enacted and enforced at a national level. It would be state level at best and compliance would be on a voluntary basis.
* I believe licensing of drivers and vehicles is driven primarily by the desire to extract additional fees for government and again this would be state level, not national.
* It is difficult to tax training and certification and of insufficient payoff that government is not going to get involved.
* Lack of proper training and certification is not the primary reason for injury and death, as we clearly agree that when a ATV and car meet we know who wins.
* There are many many recreational sports and activities which possess as much and greater potential to kill as ATV riding and nearly all are managed on a non-legislative basis, primarily coalescing around a strong self-regulating body.
* Faulty ATV design is not a major killer.
* You can not stop stupid and careless people from doing stupid and careless things.
* High risk sports and activities where sustained injury is primarily to the active participant are not managed through legislation and laws. The general belief is you can hurt yourself as you please but not innocents.


My proposed solution is to:

1) Continue to promote voluntary participation in safety training programs as they are but set new goals to form a federation amongst these groups across the nation to develop, support and encourage "uniform" regs for training and certification. "Initiatives such ATVSI is a good example. Maybe modify the existing fender warning sticker to include strong recommendation and support for attending driver safety training.

2) Resist government from putting their grubby paws on any more user $$ through fees like licensing of vehicles and users. It's just a money grab for other uses as I am certain 100% of such fees do not go directly to support the ATV community.

3) Support and advocate for laws banning ATV use on all public roads and give LEA the ability to inflict sufficiently painful consequences for violations. Fully support a "zero-tolerance" or "click it or ticket" type effort. If this can be accomplished, a great deal of the objective can be achieved.

4) Do not pursue further vehicle safety improvements as your research does not support this as a major contributor of injury, thereby preserving precious capital and energy and focus for other objectives.

I honestly believe going at this from a different slant that your original statement is more effecting a lower injury and kill rate of ATV accidents.

Now off to read those links and don't forget there are lots of big farms growing lots of fruits and nuts out here that unfortunately set and drive the national agenda and future direction of this country. Nuts and proud of it!

Ding Ding - final round for you, you Briar hoppin' nectar sucking hillbilly. :-)