<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>"What's that supposed to mean? Furthermore, you're picking and choosing still. You still won't address many of my points.
JustRandy</end quote></div>
What it means is that you should reconsider the remainder of your recent post.

The reason I pick and choose, and won't address many of your points, is because much of what you write makes little sense. And, that's being polite.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>"I'm still not even clear where you stand and many issues... "
JustRandy</end quote></div>
Then do your homework and read more than just a couple of post before assuming that we are all here to push for more laws and restrictions. We're not.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>"Edited: 02/17/2008 at 11:16 AM by ATV Connection Moderator" &lt;--- Can't you make your point without breaking rules? The best I can figure,,, you either posted something copyrighted or you're using this webspace to promote your business. And in either of those cases, I can't figure out how my death would be of any concern to you."
JustRandy</end quote></div>
Well, you figured wrong in both your assumptions.

And, now that you bring the subject up, your death is of no particular concern to me.

However, what does concern me are the over 250 preventable deaths of children annually, while engaged in a recreational activity. I, as an American Citizen choose to make it my concern, for one simple reason: 'Because it's the right thing to do!'

I chose this one area as it's where I can, and have, made a difference the last few years.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>"PS. Here's another tree for you to start barking up. "8 dead in illegal drag race in Maryland"
According to that article, 100 people die every year just in California alone! The nationwide figure has got to be up in the 1000's. And that's just illegal street racing." JustRandy</end quote></div>
Good point. Especially for use in comparison of the two activities.

A. Illegal Drag Racing B. Recreational ATV Riding

1.
A. Illegal in all 50 states. B. Regulated, but legal in all 50 states.

2.
A. Engaged in by persons 16 to 34 YOA. B. Engaged in by all ages.

3.
A. Laws against are agressively enforced. B. Enforcement rare, except post traumatic event.

4.
A. Reckless or Negligent MV operation is generally viewed as a crime. B. Reckless or Negligent ATV operation is generally viewed as acceptable.

It's here where we are promoting change as a way of reducing the number of deaths and serious injuries.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: EEResQ
What it means is that you should reconsider the remainder of your recent post. </end quote></div>

In what regard?

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: EEResQ
The reason I pick and choose, and won't address many of your points, is because much of what you write makes little sense. And, that's being polite. </end quote></div>

So, if I had mud on my face, you wouldn't tell me? What makes little sense? If you said something that didn't make sense, I would challenge it... Like I'm doing now. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Rather, I suppose you are NOT resonding to the points that DO make sense... And you ARE responding only to the points you think you can WIN. Quite the opposite of what you just said.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: EEResQ
Then do your homework and read more than just a couple of post before assuming that we are all here to push for more laws and restrictions. We're not.</end quote></div>

As I said before... raiderfan76 said, "there need to be stiffer helmet and bodyear laws, also driver and rider age enforcement". To which I replied, "Not so! There needs to be LESS laws and more personal responsibility for their own choices!" And you quoted me and started this discussion.

I did a little homework and it appears to me you are for helmet laws... and other laws like that. So, you're saying I'm wrong? You are against helmet laws?

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: EEResQ
And, now that you bring the subject up, your death is of no particular concern to me.</end quote></div>

That's great! That's the way it should be.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: EEResQ
However, what does concern me are the over 250 preventable deaths of children annually, while engaged in a recreational activity. I, as an American Citizen choose to make it my concern, for one simple reason: 'Because it's the right thing to do!'



I chose this one area as it's where I can, and have, made a difference the last few years.</end quote></div>

We all have our passions. Yours sound very admirable. I'm sure your community is very glad to have you.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: EEResQ
A. Illegal Drag Racing B. Recreational ATV Riding

1.

A. Illegal in all 50 states. B. Regulated, but legal in all 50 states.

2.

A. Engaged in by persons 16 to 34 YOA. B. Engaged in by all ages.

3.

A. Laws against are agressively enforced. B. Enforcement rare, except post traumatic event.

4.

A. Reckless or Negligent MV operation is generally viewed as a crime. B. Reckless or Negligent ATV operation is generally viewed as acceptable.



It's here where we are promoting change as a way of reducing the number of deaths and serious injuries. </end quote></div>

Do you know the % of all auto accidents in terms of total drivers? How does that % compare to the % of ATV accidents in terms of total ATV drivers? Maybe we should use "deaths" because most ATV accidents are not reported. Only some car accidents are not reported.

If the % of auto accidents is higher, that means 3. aggressive enforcemnet doesn't work and 4. Reckless or Negligent ATV operation is of no great concern to warrant aggressive legal action.

 

Hey DB and 440,

Here's the follow up on the case reported in SW Ohio last week.

************************************************** ***

Man Sentenced For ATV Crash That Killed 10-Year-Old Girl
Lebanon, OH
A man charged with vehicular homicide after an ATV accident will spend 90 days in jail. A Warren County judge also sentenced him to pay a $1,000 fine, serve 200 hours community service, as well as five years probation. Police reports said the 21-year-old man was giving several children a ride on an ATV during a church picnic when it tipped, killing a 10-year-old girl.

************************************************** ****
From what I heard from local rescuers, they prosecuted this case as it was apparent that he knew what he was doing was unsafe, and the outcome of his actions was the death of the child. The only thing that kept him from facing more serious charges was that the family is deeply religious and had "forgiven" him for his actions. So, it appears the Prosecutor and the Judge went along with the wishes of the family by not incarcerating him longer, while still providing some consequence for his deliberate actions.

 

Well its great to see that things are moving forward in a mostly positive manner.

Sorry I am not able to post more often but have just been swamped at work etc.

I got an idea from reading some of the recent posts in what effect we may have if we were to present the more popular opinions on safety from this tread on other forums that may not exactly share our thoughts on safety.

I know that some sites are 100% about incresing membership only for the benefit of raising funds thru various advertising etc, and there are also countless small sites that put "cool" above all else, and the visitors of both types could benefit from a dose of SAFETY.

There may be resistance at some places, but I doubt there will be too much if its handled properly, and we dont appear as a bunch of pushers etc. I think just getting the topic discussed at other places would be a major benefit as it will help others who were looking for info, but did not find this thread etc.

What ya think?

 

Its always a good idea to pass on an idea or message.Whether or not it is accepted or adhered to makes no real difference and should not be considered as a factor determining whether or not it is done. Seeds on the ground so to speak.
What absolutely has to be done is to put the idea in a brief, concise, easy to understand positive format. 1000 words condeming and point fingers will do no good. 1000 words talking of idiots and criminals will do no good. 1000 words demanding jail time and punishment will do nothing positive.
If you had to boil down one year of input into 250 words of wisdom and encouragement what would they be? Its a huge task............Tass

 

I agree with you there... I think all of us need ot be cognizant of what we say and do. There are a lot of people out there that would just as soon see us all go away. It has happened once in my lifetime.. and I have to say that is has the same feeling today. One thing that has changed however is that we have a lot more voices, and a lot more owners of ATV these days. And we vote. That more than anything holds a lot of sway. Ultimately the elected leaders will decide just what we can and cannot do. SO maintaining an open dialog with them is paramount. One that is honest and open, not twisting the facts like the Green eco guys want to do all the time. There are always two sides to every story, and we have to make sure our legislators get both sides of the story. It only takes one elected official with a false opinion of us to make our lives miserable.
We have tried going the self policing route and it has been a total failure because human nature is that we do not want anyone telling us what we can and cannot do. Dealing with the pure ignorate is a useless cause too. MY focus, and what has always been my focus... is to make sure that those individuals who do take teh time to research and ask the right questions are able to find the data they need to educate themselves. THAT is where our sport has not done a significant job. There is tons of stuff out there available. Go to your local Honda dealer and pick up a ton of free printed infomation paid for my HONDA. The problem is that you can had every parent customer all the pamphlets in the world but you can't make them read them... IF ANYTHING we can do education wise, it would be to find a way to MAKE them read the information and sign a statement that they have read it and understand the information... It would be a start.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>"IF ANYTHING we can do education wise, it would be to find a way to MAKE them read the information and sign a statement that they have read it and understand the information... It would be a start." DB</end quote></div>

Well DB, it looks as if someone is listening in NY. This just came through.

*****************************************

NY BILL CALLS FOR ATV SAFETY CLASSES
Posted at: 02/25/2008 05:30:36 PM

ALBANY - There's a bill on the table that would require anyone who buys an ATV to take a safety course.

News of the legislation comes two days after a man died in an ATV accident in Washington County.

Safety courses already exist in the area, but they aren't mandatory. That's what an off road vehicle expert and a lobbyist want to change.

"The keys to these machines do not come with common sense and that is what gets these guys in trouble," said Bob Ski, director of the Power Sport Vehicles Association.

Ski says the ATV Safety Institute offers free safety courses. In fact, you can actually make money by taking a course.

"Absolutely, through the ASI safety training, $100 dollar bonus just for going and learning how to ride one of these machines properly," Ski said.

The problem is the courses aren't mandatory. So a lot people don't register.

But Ski, with the help of lobbyist Chris DelGiudice, hopes to change that with a bill that would make safety courses mandatory.

"Courses are already in place for snowmobile and Jet Ski riders. Nothing for ATVs. So we're looking to add some language in the bill that would take a look at the feasibility of how much that would cost and if this would work for riders in the state," DelGiudice said.

Two days ago a 24-year-old died after his ATV crashed in Salem. State police say he wasn't wearing a helmet

"These are the common sense items that if we could drive home that'll save a lot more injuries from happening," Ski said.

Some things the safety course would touch on include:

* Always wear a helmet and protective gear.
* Never ride an ATV on public roads or highways.
* Never operate a single seat ATV with a passenger.
* Stay away from alcohol and/or drugs before driving.
* Make sure the machine is right for your age and size.

"Winter is coming to a close. So we want to gear up for the warmer weather when ATV riders become more active again," DelGiudice said.

The bill also calls for an ATV economic impact study and research on how ATVs affect the environment in New York.

*****************************************

 

I swear they are going to find a way to legislate common sense if it kills us... You watch...

 

Good Luck with that.....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>"I swear they are going to find a way to legislate common sense if it kills us...
You watch..." DB</end quote></div>

Hey DB,

No chance of this ever happening. Especially when KNUCKLEHEADS like this one still have the capacity to reproduce!

ARREST MADE IN CONNECTION WITH FATAL NY SNOWMOBILE ACCIDENT