Just wish people would use common sense

 

Well said, and riding fast or finding your limits "INTELIGENTLY" is not what is causing all the trouble, and if we look closely that is obvious.

Sure many incidents involve speed, but that is only one small part of the many things that seem to lead to these accidents were looking at.

I know I can not be the only one who knows riders who are more in control at speeds others would be white knuckled at, and control is a big part of this statement.

Just like an inexperienced driver thinking he is cool driving like a maniac around his or her school is much more apt to get into trouble than an experienced driver at much higher speeds is etc.

We all get hurt doing almost anything in our lives at one time or another, and its just a part of life etc, but just like a high school football player gears up, and practices hours upon hours there is a need for proper equipment and training for an atv rider, and to further reduce the chance (only chance like in any sport) of injury the riders actions should not out do his training, experience, and abilities.

Its really not that involved to figure out, well until you get into the various model offerings and hype type advertizing.

 

Thank you for finally posting something I could debate LMAO [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]. I was starting to think you were reading my mind or something.

I do totally agree with idea of those ear to ear smiles, and even if its not your little guy etc, but I think your missing something on the rest.

Before I get into this I want to remind everyone of the "control" thing, and I am not talking about riders who are not within their abilities etc.

Were all in this together, and one thing I have learned from being around this sport is that there are many things we all dont do the same, and many more things that we dont all share in knowing or understanding.

I see examples all the time when out on the trails, and even in some of the atv parks I have been to. A situation that comes up a lot is sharing the trail with others. I mean sure no one who is right in the mind is going to purposely cause a head on or run over slower riders in front of them, but how many will alert oncoming traffic of the number riders behind them in their group (something most every enduro rider has done for years), or how many know to not push slower riders ahead of them, or how many know to allow faster riders safely pass (without panic of fear), and this is not exclusive to un marked trails either.

There has been more than a few times that I have tried to "run cover" for a mini atv rider on a fast trail section and even on a track. Sure these were not expert mx tracks, but there was a scary combo of faster sport riders (many younger themselves) and a proud dad on his machine either following or most times riding along side his kid on the mini.

Most figured out the danger by the second corner etc, but all appreciated my slowing down of the other riders, and especially after they later learned that their path was most times in the faster lanes of traffic, and also the other faster riders were blinding from seeing them due to corners and jumps etc.

The point is that we all have a right to ride to our enjoyment, and to make this work we all also have to be understanding the basic unwritten rules of the trail or road etc.

If you have had the experience of riding the same trails at both leisure and white knuckle speeds you should be able to fully appreciate what I am getting at, and since I have done both many times I can say I know the difference in enjoying the scenery, and its being a total blurr.

 

Great points!!!!!!!!!

I have to agree with recon on the idea that many riders dont purchase the best machine for their needs, and more often than not they end up with more machine than they needed and many times can handle. This also rings true for sport machines, and I remember more than one rider selling off a new yfz450 because it was just too much machine for them performance wise.

You may have to look at this with an open mind to really get it, but I would rather see my granny in the olds than a 800cc util, and if she insisted on having an atv for all the many great values it has for work around the yard or farm etc I am sure I would have used logic to cause her to get a smaller 4x4 (only if the area was constantly filled with mud deeper than a foot) or even a good 2x4 unit.

I think we all seem to forget a couple things like not too long ago the warrior was considered a sport quad, and most larger 4x4 util machines were only 400-500cc and around 500lbs. Things have changed a whole lot across our entire sport, and some of it has been a blessing (more power where needed, better suspension where the mfg had no choice lol etc) but a whole lot of it has been little more than marketing, and building machines that fit into what the mfg believed would sell more units of the most profitable models.

Who could argue that obviously the most profitable units are the largest most expensive util models, and this is where all the efforts have been put by the majority of mfgs, and though you cant blame them for trying to capitalize as much as possible etc these are just simply not the right machine for the majority of riders purchasing them period!!

I will share this experience I had recently at a multi line dealer where a older customer (around his mid 60's) was looking for a new unit to add to and sort of replace his current older wolverine. Would you believe the salesmen immediately directed him to the most expensive 4 wheeled couch he had [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Seems he uses his atv at some property he owns out of state and puts them to use for gathering fire wood, clearing trails, and just basic chores. He also does plenty of trail riding, and uses them to help his hunting etc. Not a full time work machine, or trail machine, or mud machine etc.

Being a little outspoken I had to intercept (I am sure the sales guy loved it, and his face showed it too [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] )and after a couple minutes it was obvious this guy didnt need to (or want to) spend this kind of cash, and wasnt totally 100% on even needing another 4x4. I didnt hang around to see what he purchased that day, but I know he was better understanding what models were avail to him, and was considering just how much he needed a full on 4x4 util, and if he only needed to supplement his current 4x4 for his real needs.

Maybe all I did was pissoff the sales guy, but I know there is a much lower chance of this rider ending up trapped under an 800lb machine he didnt need to buy.

 

Kubota hands down!!!!!!!!

You have enough samples of both sport and util machines already so may as well go for the bullet proof diesel.

Seems like your experience with models is sort of like my own (well except that all of the util I have rode were friends except for one, and that was a split use) and I am thinking you may be able to answer something.

First I have to admit I enjoyed some of what used to be the larger util (grizz, prarrie etc) as they were just fun etc, but to be honest just how do you compare the handling and suspension between the larger util and sport machines?

To be honest even my old warrior seemed much more stable than the larger utils, and that thing was not wide at all, and poorly suspended.

Just curious what you think or your experience, and also if you could tell me why you believe you cant pull a 400lb atv out of a ditch or hole, but were able to man handle that 300+lb genie????????????? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Howdy 440,

I'm fairly new to the sport but have seen some of the crazyness you mentioned. My view is that what is being exhibited is a reflection of our culture which in itself is "sort a" out of control. There's alot of responsible riders out there but also a good collection of nuts. Unfortunately, the negative actions make a huge impact. All you can do is act responsible and lead by example whether you're with your kids or around others. Other than that, its just going to need to play out. Your concern is commendable.

 

Amphib thanks for the kind words!

 

Let me say something about utes in particular, and all ATV's in particular. First of all, they are all WAY TOO BIG. The engine size war appeals to a certain percentage of riders... I can understand what bragging right have to do with it, but in reality now, I can't see the need for anything over 500 CC's. And even then, that is pretty far out there. The Sport machines are WAY too FAST. Too much suspension makes them taller and easier to tip over (HMMM, that seems to be a contributor to the injury stats). The Utes weigh way too much in my opinion too. They handle like crap when you get to teh big mega class machines too. YOu throw in independant rear suspension, and you have a recipe for desaster because instead of sliding the rear, it digs in and flips you. (recurring theme here).

The height wars contribute to the tall machines. After market tires are another. Oh yeah, everyone needs taller tires because they look cool. Hey I got a jacked up Diesel Dodge/Cummins 4x4 in the drive way. Do I need the big tires and mile high suspension lift? No.. but it looks cool and makes the squirrels run away.... Same goes fo the ATV's.

Steering on most utes requires herculean strength in most cases when in 4x4 mode. If you have an older Rubicon like mine, get teh WARN 4x2 kit. It makes a world of difference to be able to click it into 2 wheel drive for most conditions, and then go to 4x4 mode when you need it.

As for the knees/legs and lifting. Straight lifts I can do using mostly my back. Carrying is another matter. I used th eUte and backed it up to where I needed it. No carrying. I have zero hamstrings left in the right leg. Hence, no ability to push. That makes things hard when climbing stairs etc. I have running boards on my truck that the wife loves, but I can't use them. Thank Goodness I am tall enough to lift my butt onto the seat and slide in or I'd be in trouble.

The industry has done a poor job in keeping up with design as well. The machines clearly would benefit from being wider. We don't need all that ground clearance either. Not in stock machines that is. Honda made some ute machines that were lower to the ground, and had a lower Center of gravity that was in the right direction. I think Bombardier is doing some neat things to lower their CG too.

You are right though, that you can't really compare the handling of sport machines to utes. You have to match the riding conditions to the machine. I generally ride trails in rugged country where a sport machine with it's hand clutch etc are a detriment. My fully automatic tranny on teh Rubicon wins hands down in areas where steep hills require more finesse than throttle to make it up a hill. Everything is a compromise.. for my larger than the average butt physique, they are much more comfortable. I will admit to you though, that my warrior's reverse has never failed ot pull me out of some pretty amazing mud holes. But I feel much more comfortable on the Rubicon. That thing will climb trees if I ask it to. My wife on the other hand cannot turn it. She just does not have the strength any more. SOmething about aging that robs you of strength. You will see someday...

I can afford a Grizzly, I think the Kodiak is a better machine. That is way too much machine for my riding tastes. I actually was going to buy a Kodiak when I got the Honda because Honda had such an incredible discount offer the day I had the cash in hand and momma told me to pull the trigger. I got it for $1200 UNDER retail. I still drool over the Kodiaks though. But I love the Honda's transmission which is second to none. When you use your machine alot and you get a chance to ride one, you will see what I mean.

 

There seems to be this myth that everyone who gets hurt on a quad is riding a sport quad to fast. So. Calif. is sport quad country, and that just isn't what I am seeing around here. Sport quads have low centers of gravity, are very light weight (and getting lighter all the time), and wide and reasonalby stable. A sport quad can be safely ridden a high speed!

On the other hand, the worst crashes I have ever seen have been huge utes that got rolled. Some of these have been with the quad almost standing still, when the rider couldn't make a steep slope.

On a sport quad, if you roll it you are going to get squished by some soft fenders. On a ute, it's going to be some hard racks. Plus, which would you rather have on top of you? A 350 pound sport, or a 700+ pound ute??????

 

I have a friend that had a Z400 like mine he was going up a river bank fairly steep hit a rock and flipped backwards ,he hung on feet on the pegs and hands on the grips and basically did a sideways leg press and kept with the machine , now try that with 700 lbs coming down on you .