He didn't quote you out of context. LOL, that's the first paragraph on your photo page.

 

Yeah, but it was all past tense. I said a lot more than that, which totally changed the context from what he gives. I also said, "I went from an ATV hater and mountain biker to someone who put 10 to 20 miles a week on my ATV, and loved it."

 

I'm not a politician at all. As pointed out, I justed quoted you. Perhaps you don't see the irony, but I would compare this to Ted Nugent showing up at a world wildlife fund benefit. If you have turned over a new leaf, great. I'm glad you enjoy the sport and will no longer be interested in ruining it for others.

You see, when people try and tell me, or anybody for that matter, how they can and can't use public lands (that really belong to everyone), it's something I really resent deeply. I'm a very courteous rider. Mainly, sticking to forest service roads when riding on public lands. I'll go by the back packing tree hugging greenie at like 5 mph as to not dust him. I'm friendly. I wave. He just gives me his usual dirty look, even though I'm not going riding through streams and I'm treating him with nothing but good will. And I have realized I just can't win with these people. I get the same response from them when I ride on private land that I have paid money to be on and have a permit for.

And what is even more amusing, is here where I live, the public lands are managed in a very effective manner. Tree huggers have their trails. Jeeps have their trails. ATVs have their trails and so on. ATV trails may merge with motorcycle trails...but not tree hugger trails. But guess who thinks they get to go everywhere? The tree huggers. If I showed the same disregard for the rules, they would call the ranger in a heartbeat. And I really don't care they are on the ATV trails. The thing that just frustrates me is they have the gall to say I shouldn't be on that trail that is designated for ATV use.

So needless to say, I hate tree huggers. And I'll fight them tooth and nail for people to be able to use public lands for this sport. If you want to call me a politician because of it, I could really care less. Matter of fact, I would go so far as to say that if you care about this sport at all, and are paying attention at all, you have to be involved at some level in a political sense because it has indeed become a political issue thanks to people who think they have a right to dictate how everyone uses the land that belongs to us all.

Lastly, I got way off topic and I'll be the first to admit I can get a bit crazy about this subject. This was about sleds and ATVs. You see, it's really not a darn ATV or darn sledder issue. It's a matter of how your public lands are or are not managed for this activity. And how it needs to be and for both people to go out and have a good time. And if that was being done, and you still hit those ruts because somebody doesn't respect the rules, then I'll be the first to agree with you. But it sounds like it's anybodys game and you can't complain about people playing when thats the case.

 

To quote you somewhat out of context: "I'm glad you enjoy the sport and will no longer be interested in ruining it for others."

That goes both ways. My point was that ATVers are ruining trails for snowmobilers, especially when they ride when the temperatures are in the upper twenties and warmer. I ride my ATV on the same trails as my snowmobile, but not when there is snow and would ruin the trails for snowmobilers.

It is important for you to realize that it is not just tree huggers who have problems with ATVs, and if we are going to get more trails for ATVs, that needs to be addressed. In this specific instance, it is snowmobilers and they can hardly be considered to be tree huggers. We can use their help, but that's not going to happen when many ATVers feel its ok to ruin their sport.

 

I think some common courtesy to the snowmobilers is just a matter of being a good citizen. But the problem is not the ATV rider. It is the forest service. It is their responsibility to manage those public lands. All they have to designate areas for certain uses only and your problem is gone. ATVs only this way. Snowmobiles only this way. A couple of signs and your good to go. Then of course, in the spring those snowmobile signs come down. It really is that simple. And if you catch ATVs on snowmobile only trails or vice versa, the ranger fines the hell out of those people. Good management. That is all that is required. I have it where I live. The rangers put up signs designating what the trail is for. I obey the signs, respect the ranger and everybody is happy. With the exception of the tree hugger of course. Who is never happy.

Of course, when they do this, the forest service has a new round of complaints because this person cant' go here or there. And yes. That is not pleasant. I have had some of my favorite trails closed off recently to foot traffic only. Those are the breaks and I just suck it up and deal with it. For now. I also make donations to my local ATV clubs who fight to keep trails open for us.

 

Amen!

 

Well if it is a multi-use trail, then you have to expect less than optimal conditions, but there are snowmobile only trails, which are cleared of debris in the fall and groomed by the snowmobile clubs in the winter, mostly by volunteer labor. If the ATV was on a snowmobile only trail then i can fully appreciate his complaint. I ride sleds too, and on a fast wide well groomed trail 60 mph wouldn't really be that fast either. There are sleds fully capable of doing over 100mph, now should they go 100 on trails? Definitely not, as there are too many variables on the trail...other riders, curves, trees, unexpected bumps, deer. Every year there are speed related fatalities with the newer faster better suspension sleds that are available. I noted his in original post, he rides in Wisconsin. I don't know about their trail system, but in Michigan if you ride an ATV on a snowmobile only trail, you will be ticketed. In a lot of places there is a speed limit of 55 mph on the trails, and people have been know to do 5 over, just as they do in cars, figuring they won't be stopped by the DNR with a radar gun for 5 mph over.

 

No snowmobiles down here, but we do unfortunately have to share with two groups, the tresspassing, four hooved, I can go anywhere I want crapping everywhere horsebackriders,(have you ever seen how much damage a hooved animal does to the land?) and hunting clubs. Yes, now I know that horses are the original atv's, and they need to ride too, but the average owner, around here, seems to think that since they don't make any real noise and don't polutte the environment, they can go anywhere they want, even trespass. The hunt clubs on the other hand controll a vast majority of the land around here, once again, they need it due to the rise of posted land and sub-deveopments rising, majority of them own and use atv's and will gladly join you for a ride in another area that you have access to, but don't even think about asking them to ride on their land! It has even been proposed to them to join the club and maintain the trails,build bridges,food plots, new trails and so forth. Some day I included am going to have to learn that we must all get along the best we can and share our resources,skills,connections and lands, before the tree huggers do. They close down places to ride walk and enjoy not realizing that they are doing more harm than good. Around here if a trail goes bad and cannot be maintaned any longer, it gets blocked off and has trees given by the Dept. of Forestry, planted there, the trail is bypassed. when treehugger closes down to all or just to foot traffic places, they are too lazy to do anything with it besides sell it for a profit, to a developer, and start bitching all over again about how everyone else is abusing""their land". and they have no where to watch the birdies! Never mind the fact that they won't even think about opening up ditches, in sted they will throw or cut trees across a stream or ditch screwing up the whole habitat around the stream, just so they won't get there Eddie Bauer boots muddy. They will build little benches or bird houses or any other piece of "furniture" out of salt-treated lumber (which contains a poison known as Arsonic) and think it so cute when the little squirrel,beavers,chipmunks,woodpeckers start chewing on the wood. Then when they start dying or having health issues, they will blame it a farmer, a hunt club, or pollution from atv's. We all have to get along, share the road, have respect for others, calmly solve trail issues, and keep a tight rope on those tree huggers!

 

Interesting point on the horses. I can't honestly complain myself, but I can see how it could be a issue. I own proprety myself, but have had no problems with horses. But in regards to the tree huggers, if a person just goes back and examines the historical roots of some of the major forces in the environmental movements, it is quite educational. And when I say educational, I mean in what we ourselves are doing wrong.

I myself think that the World Wildlife Fund is a very powerful force. Or say the Sierra Club.

But they didn't get that way just by having grassroots clubs where people went out and took action. The way they became a force to be reckoned with was simple. It was through money. You see, they solicit donations on a regular basis from their members. Sort of like public television. And with that money, they get lawyers and they litigate their way to their goals. However, we in the ATV world haven't come to this realization yet. The enemy has. But we are still under the impression that if we play the role of good citizens that all will work out. This makes the assumption however, that our opposition is composed of rational people. It is not, thus this logic is not entirely effective. Helpful. Gains us some ground. But at the end of the day, if we face stiff enough opposition, we lose the battle.

What we really need, is something similar to the NRA but for ATVs. And people need to be willing to reach into their wallets so that we can have lobbyists and we can become a force to be reckoned with. Until we hit that type of level, we will always lose.

Look at this way (those of you who are gun owners will relate here)....if we have trouble keeping our second amendment to the constitution rights in tact, why in the world would we think we can keep public lands open to our sport? One thing is part of the fabric of our country and is under constant fire. But it has groups to defend it. Another is under constant fire, but has no real powerful force to protect it. If something is not done of this calibur, you will eventually lose your ability to ride ATVs or motorcycles on public lands. Count on it.

That land that they will ban us from using the way we would like to is at some level, your land too as a citizen of that state or as a citizen of this country. And no special interest group has a right to ban you from using it in a reasonable manner. They are only able to do so because they have taken the necessary steps to accomplish their goal. We need to do the same.