Rangers for Responsible Recreation
#1
08-10-2007, 03:41 AM
Rangers for Responsible Recreation
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Public employees can not be left to follow their own personal agenda! Who are they to say what constitutes land abuse and what doesn't? It's our land too, not just the private property of a few environmental wachos. Many of these individuals suffer from a form of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder), that manifests itself as environmental extremism.....
Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the "environmental movement" has become the new home for left wing socialists/ communists. Only way we are going to control these people is to not let the left get control of the White House and Congress next election!
Public employees can not be left to follow their own personal agenda! Who are they to say what constitutes land abuse and what doesn't? It's our land too, not just the private property of a few environmental wachos. Many of these individuals suffer from a form of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder), that manifests itself as environmental extremism.....
Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the "environmental movement" has become the new home for left wing socialists/ communists. Only way we are going to control these people is to not let the left get control of the White House and Congress next election!
#2
08-10-2007, 09:09 AM
Rangers for Responsible Recreation
It appears to me that none of these individuals are current public employees and pretty much have the right to say anything that they wish.
If there are statements being made here that are indeed not accurate...then who exactly 'among us' have not only most likely dealt with a few of these people on a first name basis in the past...but 'should have' the info all of us obviously need to refute it?
Could we simply start out with exaxctly who us mere peon 'non-leaders' in the off-road community believe to be wrong here...and/or exactly what part of each individual's statement is in <u>fact</u> 'incorrect'?
Hey, if nobody else is going to refute any of this publicly or give us an honest asessment of each one of these individuals based on most likely community payed for high level contact with them...then maybe none of these people were ever even involved with off-road issues in their storied careers...to begin with! (again, if orv leadership isn't willing to even spill the beans on these people after they've been forced out or retired...then you can sure as heck guarantee that the average peon out here sending them money to 'negotiate' with these same type people...will never know the full story concerning the mess we're in now or well into the future).
If there are statements being made here that are indeed not accurate...then who exactly 'among us' have not only most likely dealt with a few of these people on a first name basis in the past...but 'should have' the info all of us obviously need to refute it?
Could we simply start out with exaxctly who us mere peon 'non-leaders' in the off-road community believe to be wrong here...and/or exactly what part of each individual's statement is in <u>fact</u> 'incorrect'?
Hey, if nobody else is going to refute any of this publicly or give us an honest asessment of each one of these individuals based on most likely community payed for high level contact with them...then maybe none of these people were ever even involved with off-road issues in their storied careers...to begin with! (again, if orv leadership isn't willing to even spill the beans on these people after they've been forced out or retired...then you can sure as heck guarantee that the average peon out here sending them money to 'negotiate' with these same type people...will never know the full story concerning the mess we're in now or well into the future).
#3
08-10-2007, 09:09 AM
#4
08-10-2007, 10:14 AM
Rangers for Responsible Recreation
While the individuals/opinions listed are those of "former and retired" public employees, you can bet there are a hoard of current public employees who are not listed for obvious reasons.
In our local mountains a few years ago, we had a ranger who decided he was going to turn enviromnental activist. He would write tickets for riding on open roads and trails. He took down signs that showed which trails were open. I don't know exactly what happened to him in the end...probably got reasigned somewhere else......
On the other hand, I have to say that I have met a number of rangers over the years who feel that motorized recreation is a legitimate way to experience our public lands!
In our local mountains a few years ago, we had a ranger who decided he was going to turn enviromnental activist. He would write tickets for riding on open roads and trails. He took down signs that showed which trails were open. I don't know exactly what happened to him in the end...probably got reasigned somewhere else......
On the other hand, I have to say that I have met a number of rangers over the years who feel that motorized recreation is a legitimate way to experience our public lands!
#5
08-10-2007, 02:51 PM
Rangers for Responsible Recreation
Originally posted by: reconranger
"...While the individuals/opinions listed are those of "former and retired" public employees, you can be there are a hoard of current public employees who are not listed for obvious reasons...."
(blackballed):
Agreed...yet my experience has been that at least a good number of our our current orv leadership tend to be 'in bed' with them also.
If you can't force even your own leaders to give you 'the scoop' on these people or possibly their dealings with orv leadership while they were effectively both employees of this community and well AFTER their cozy little dance was long over...what can you trust these people to do in our name to begin with?
Two short examples:
At the largest maintained sytem in this nation; orv leaders have turned their head the other way for literally years regarding the following; in relation to this very subject:
They have allowed govt. employees to simply cut off and shut down the selection process that cultivated mere peon citizens to serve on the only public advisory boards driving all major orv decisions...
They have inexplainedly and infinitely allowed govt. employees to extend the terms of select 'non-4-wheeled-rapists' on the only board out there....with our only other 'new blood' representation posessing no previous record of ever attending a meeting to begin with....
How much farther do I have to go and how many other arrogant "pay-no-attention-to-that-man-behind-the-curtain" instances must I cite here?
Nobody gives a darn about the folks getting us into these messes or filling up each other's dance card....therein lies the problem...and all of these guys have been laughing for years that both you and I are either to lazy, stupid, 'afraid' (or most likely all three) to do anything about it.
(reconranger):
".... On the other hand, I have to say that I have met a number of rangers over the years who feel that motorized recreation is a legitimate way to experience [b]our public lands!..."
There is no doubt that the above statement is 100% true....yet only only stand-up-like-a-man leadership on <u>our</u> part will ever truly elevate those same individuals above others in govt. that have used 100% willing participants in our very own community to tear the whole blasted thing right in half.
Bad govt. employees don't get to where they are without a good bunch of people on our side NOT doing their damnest to run those same people right in the heck OUT of public office.
Yet if you're sleeping with the dogs....by gosh you're going to get fleas and that's what the story here in Michigan, at least, has truly been all about for decades now.
"...While the individuals/opinions listed are those of "former and retired" public employees, you can be there are a hoard of current public employees who are not listed for obvious reasons...."
(blackballed):
Agreed...yet my experience has been that at least a good number of our our current orv leadership tend to be 'in bed' with them also.
If you can't force even your own leaders to give you 'the scoop' on these people or possibly their dealings with orv leadership while they were effectively both employees of this community and well AFTER their cozy little dance was long over...what can you trust these people to do in our name to begin with?
Two short examples:
At the largest maintained sytem in this nation; orv leaders have turned their head the other way for literally years regarding the following; in relation to this very subject:
They have allowed govt. employees to simply cut off and shut down the selection process that cultivated mere peon citizens to serve on the only public advisory boards driving all major orv decisions...
They have inexplainedly and infinitely allowed govt. employees to extend the terms of select 'non-4-wheeled-rapists' on the only board out there....with our only other 'new blood' representation posessing no previous record of ever attending a meeting to begin with....
How much farther do I have to go and how many other arrogant "pay-no-attention-to-that-man-behind-the-curtain" instances must I cite here?
Nobody gives a darn about the folks getting us into these messes or filling up each other's dance card....therein lies the problem...and all of these guys have been laughing for years that both you and I are either to lazy, stupid, 'afraid' (or most likely all three) to do anything about it.
(reconranger):
".... On the other hand, I have to say that I have met a number of rangers over the years who feel that motorized recreation is a legitimate way to experience [b]our public lands!..."
There is no doubt that the above statement is 100% true....yet only only stand-up-like-a-man leadership on <u>our</u> part will ever truly elevate those same individuals above others in govt. that have used 100% willing participants in our very own community to tear the whole blasted thing right in half.
Bad govt. employees don't get to where they are without a good bunch of people on our side NOT doing their damnest to run those same people right in the heck OUT of public office.
Yet if you're sleeping with the dogs....by gosh you're going to get fleas and that's what the story here in Michigan, at least, has truly been all about for decades now.
#6
08-25-2007, 11:00 AM
Rangers for Responsible Recreation
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: blackballed
"....If there are statements being made here that are indeed not accurate...then who exactly 'among us' have not only most likely dealt with a few of these people on a first name basis in the past...but 'should have' the info all of us obviously need to refute it?..."</end quote></div>
It is pretty telling to me (or 'sad'....you pick) that the debate stopped there.
Not only couldn't the communty come up with a measured response to these individuals and their allegations even in discussion...but we're afraid to ask our very own leaders for any insight as to their possible involvement with these same people in the past (meetings that we most likely funded).
Again, we can't make any headway against those who oppose us or acknowledge and possibly even accomodate their claims of 'injustice'...if we aren't even willing to discuss/dispute the worst of those accusations and demand that leadership give us the inside scoop as to just who is out there trying to tear us down in the first place.
And if any of our national leaders have never dealt with at least one of these people in the past or couldn't have possibly predicted even one of them now coming 'out' in such a manner today?...then I'll say it once again that we sure as heck need brand new 'tell it like it is' leadership that will prevent this kind of unnecessary bad press in the future.
The silence here smells of a lot of guys and gals (on our dime) lounging by the hotel convention pool over the decades...while this whole massive land closure mess loomed large and frankly obvious on the horizon.
"....If there are statements being made here that are indeed not accurate...then who exactly 'among us' have not only most likely dealt with a few of these people on a first name basis in the past...but 'should have' the info all of us obviously need to refute it?..."</end quote></div>
It is pretty telling to me (or 'sad'....you pick) that the debate stopped there.
Not only couldn't the communty come up with a measured response to these individuals and their allegations even in discussion...but we're afraid to ask our very own leaders for any insight as to their possible involvement with these same people in the past (meetings that we most likely funded).
Again, we can't make any headway against those who oppose us or acknowledge and possibly even accomodate their claims of 'injustice'...if we aren't even willing to discuss/dispute the worst of those accusations and demand that leadership give us the inside scoop as to just who is out there trying to tear us down in the first place.
And if any of our national leaders have never dealt with at least one of these people in the past or couldn't have possibly predicted even one of them now coming 'out' in such a manner today?...then I'll say it once again that we sure as heck need brand new 'tell it like it is' leadership that will prevent this kind of unnecessary bad press in the future.
The silence here smells of a lot of guys and gals (on our dime) lounging by the hotel convention pool over the decades...while this whole massive land closure mess loomed large and frankly obvious on the horizon.
#7
09-10-2007, 04:53 PM
KTM Patrol
Former Chinese POW!
Former Chinese POW!
Rangers for Responsible Recreation
BB, its getting pretty boring reading about your disapproval of the ORV leadership in your home state. In just about every DARN thread you take the time to post in.
reconranger, i have been riding off road in Ca since about '74. Dont have any real memories of the state run off road parks until the early '80's. There is no arguement that the rangers at the riding areas are changing. It used to be that the rangers that worked at the riding areas were riders first and rangers second. Now they seem to be environmentalists first, rangers second and maybe they can sort of ride. I couldnt agree more with your fall of the soviet union comment.
reconranger, i have been riding off road in Ca since about '74. Dont have any real memories of the state run off road parks until the early '80's. There is no arguement that the rangers at the riding areas are changing. It used to be that the rangers that worked at the riding areas were riders first and rangers second. Now they seem to be environmentalists first, rangers second and maybe they can sort of ride. I couldnt agree more with your fall of the soviet union comment.
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#8
09-17-2007, 09:48 AM
Rangers for Responsible Recreation
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: mywifesquad
BB, its getting pretty boring reading about your disapproval of the ORV leadership in your home state. In just about every DARN thread you take the time to post in..</end quote></div>
Sorry, but orv leadership here in Michigan at the largest maintained system out there...are quite often often the same individuals heavily involved in national leadership to begin with.(been that way for years....hasn't changed....and if one of these guys treats us mere 'peon' contributors out here badly....I can guarantee you, from experience, that the rest of 'em will give a damn less).
If we can't get even one national orv leader to say anything negative publicly or privately in regards to his 'buddies' serving YEARS long expired representative terms in power here in Michigan (at the expense of all others in the community who have given up trying to make their voices heard)...then I do belive it is 'past' time to question their character and non-uniting effectiveness also.
If you had this kind of crap going on in YOUR home state and then found out very quickly that the 'national boys' were not only backing thes guys up...but trying their damnest to disparage the character of you, the messenger, to boot...then yeah, I guess you're right...you would 'bend over' immediately instead of fight the bastards for your kid's outdoor legacy and the right to simply be heard.(you're right, I'm wrong, MWQ...).
BB, its getting pretty boring reading about your disapproval of the ORV leadership in your home state. In just about every DARN thread you take the time to post in..</end quote></div>
Sorry, but orv leadership here in Michigan at the largest maintained system out there...are quite often often the same individuals heavily involved in national leadership to begin with.(been that way for years....hasn't changed....and if one of these guys treats us mere 'peon' contributors out here badly....I can guarantee you, from experience, that the rest of 'em will give a damn less).
If we can't get even one national orv leader to say anything negative publicly or privately in regards to his 'buddies' serving YEARS long expired representative terms in power here in Michigan (at the expense of all others in the community who have given up trying to make their voices heard)...then I do belive it is 'past' time to question their character and non-uniting effectiveness also.
If you had this kind of crap going on in YOUR home state and then found out very quickly that the 'national boys' were not only backing thes guys up...but trying their damnest to disparage the character of you, the messenger, to boot...then yeah, I guess you're right...you would 'bend over' immediately instead of fight the bastards for your kid's outdoor legacy and the right to simply be heard.(you're right, I'm wrong, MWQ...).
#9
09-17-2007, 10:03 AM
Rangers for Responsible Recreation
And yeah, I'm still waiting for one of 'us' to refute a word that any one of these Rangers has come up with...whether they're a bunch of damn liars or not.
Love how we can all call a guy or gal every name in the book...yet when it comes to disputing the actual story presented...everybody takes a 'pass'....as if these accounts "couldnt be possible" and that no drastic measures need be taken to prevent such a thing in the future by <u>our</u> orv leadership.
Love how we can all call a guy or gal every name in the book...yet when it comes to disputing the actual story presented...everybody takes a 'pass'....as if these accounts "couldnt be possible" and that no drastic measures need be taken to prevent such a thing in the future by <u>our</u> orv leadership.