does the possibility exsist that the no roads issue is really a way for the timber/mining/oil industry to rape our forests with no witnesses ? they poured alot of money in this last election (both dem/rep parties, they had to hedge their bets ya know) and am sure they want a return on their investment. people on/in off-road vehicles cover alot of ground in a days time.
just a thot

 

Think carefully, snakechaser! With no roads, how, exactly do you expect the "timber/mining/oil" business will evacuate the logs/ore/petroleum from the forests? Secret underground passageways?

Believe me, the eco-*****, embraced by your President Clinton, will not allow even existing power lines and pipelines crossing National Forests to be serviced by trucks in the roadless areas.

Even if you have a medical emergency, like acute appendecitis, YOU cannot be evacuated from "roadless areas" by medevac helicopter or ambulance without a special dispensation from the bureaucrat-in-charge.

If you want to read more about it (and I doubt you will), today (January 13, 2001), The Washington Post (www.washingonpost.com), page A1, has a story "A Slow Start Built to an Environmental End-Run" tells in glowing terms how Clinton has declared an area the size of Oregon (6 million acres) off-limits to the public with his unilateral (and, I think illegal) use of the 1906 Antiquities Act, declaring "National Monuments," and by Executive Order creating "Roadless Areas" in National Forests, both without any debate or discussion by Congress or ANYONE ('cept Bill Clinton). The exceedingly partisan Clinton-boosting Washington Post laughs, tee-hee, because they think it's cute that their darling, Bill Clinton, abused his power as President this way.

The article admits Clinton's land-grab, nearly all enacted in the twilight of his reign, is a cynical attempt to establish a legacy other than Clinton's sex-addict performance for history. Clinton, personally, has no interest in environmental issues (the article says); his only encounter with The Great Outdoors occurs on golf courses; however, Clinton's polling data says closing down public lands is popular with the public (of course, like all polling data, depends upon how the questions are asked to whom).

The article, after telling how the clever Clinton operatives cordoned off all this land while bypassing Congress and the American people, says, in its last paragraph, "'It is a lot harder to undo than to do,' said a senior official at the Environmental Protection Agency, . . ., 'We made sure of that.'"

If you care about public access to public lands, go to www.monumentpetition.com and sign the petition.

Diogenes

 

geez, calm down, rein that pony in. i think you missed my point. first, i have been a registered republican for 30 years, i am not a tree hugger. i was just wondering if there wasn't something else to all this enviro stuff. been around long enough to know that everything isn't alwayz as it seems on the surface. you have to follow the money trail to get to the truth. big brother isn't gonna collect many tax dollars on public lands setting idle.
second, i know you think you live in a democracy but the same people that owned clinton, own bush.

 

I never accused you of being a tree-hugger or of NOT being a Republian, snakechaser.

Did you read the WP article?

Did you sign the petition?

At least, did you "click" on the petition and read it?

I doubt "the same people," "own" Bush, as, you say they "owned" Clinton.

I have attended "Public Workshops" conducted by the US Forest Service concerning their "Master Plans" for National Forest areas, sitting alongside lumbermen, mining geologists, and gas pipeline and electric power line representatives. Believe me, no one who makes his living in any of these areas supports Clinton's "roadless" initiatives; they are not poised to "rape" the land of its natural resources in secrecy, aided and abetted by the the "roadless" initiative.

Like you, I'm suspicious of Clinton's motives: What's Clinton getting out of going "green," here at the end of his term (he and Hillary calculate their every move)? He has no personal interest in the environment; the Chinese Communists aren't funding this initiative, are they? As far as I know, all he gets out of closing public lands is his attempt to divert history from focusing on his perjury and other scandalous behavior, in hopes of salvaging some legacy he thinks someone (tree huggers?) thinks worthwhile.

I must say, a far greater number of the "public workshop" meeting participants were of the eco-creep variety, "Cutting a tree is murder!" Looked like '60's reenactors, about to make a Woodstock film.

Needless to say, while the US Forest Service representatives dutifully recorded the comments of the interests I have mentioned; NONE was taken into account in the final Master Plan--my suspicions, (President Clinton) and (Vice President Gore) had already completed and published the Plan before the meeting even began; inviting public comments was only a cynical, manipulative and fraudulent ploy, designed to give the cometic appearance only of taking public comments into account.

Unlike you, I believe we live in a representative democracy, and hope for an honest, principled, and legal review by the Bush Administration of Clinton's unilateral National Monument creation, as the petition suggests.

Diogenes

 

Snakechaser, I think you chased something out in the open. DIO-GENES! That's not a name is it. That's really how you feel about yourself. If you should ever decide to leave Texas, please notify the rest of us...
Chuck, Suzuki KQ 300, GPS & lunch...

 

I'm not Diogenes, but that is a real name. Diogenes was an ancient Greek philosopher. He was on the same plane as Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates. All were very wise and distinguished thinkers. By looking at some of Diogenes of Texas posts, he too is a deep thinker....

 

Thanks for your help mindhunter, I didn't realize he (Texas Diogenes) considered himself a philosopher of old-- America or is it Europe? I remember the other three guys you mentioned but-- I apologize for not knowing T.D. My hope is that he and you will except my apology, for as long as he's in Texas.
Chuck,Suzuki KQ 300, GPS & lunch...

 

First off, I am not a Texan. I did what at the time seemed like a lifetime, live there once. Longest two years of my life. The only thing I can you about Texans is, " You can always tell a Texan, but you can't tell them much". I haven't the foggiest idea why they're so proud of that state. Where I lived in south Texas, if you stood on a tuna can you could see Brazil. If you stood on a soup can you could see the back of your head. That is how flat it is down there.

 

OK Minehunter, I looked at the site for ID. Looks OK but you must be just starting out. You are obviously involved some how or you wouldn't promote that site. Hope you guys can manage to sustain the competition you will be getting from other sources already in progress. Like here...
Oh! Thanks for the Texas, stuff...
Chuck, Suzuki KQ 300, GPS & lunch...