Sorry Quadstock, but your buddy Jeff ('the gatekeeper'; who decides which topics are publicly discussed within the Michigan ATV Assoc.) has decided that since I can't post on the site he owns; it's time to make some false comments at my expense. Hey, you at least 'tried' to keep this thing from going any further...........but I guess sometimes 'a guy' has got to hear some support from 'someone' before it really gets to them. Jeff e-mailed me and wanted to make sure that 'I knew' that I was 'only giving him more hits' to his site. (lol)Well Jeff, I know that some of us use a webite's 'hits' as a measure of 'success'; so let me help your ego out a little further by giving the 'michiganatv.com' address out along with the ATTACK TOPIC you started which pretty much goes against the very STRICT rules you yourself created!(go to trail talk/general discussion and "I am a little ticked off..."

Why did we have to take this any further?

First of all, when we were all encouraged to send in our money to this club; we were also encouraged to 'use the website to communicate' and 'make sure your voice is heard' because (for all those unfamiliar) WE HAVE THE ONLY STATE ORV ADVISORY BOARD REPRESENTATIVE AS OUR PRESIDENT!

Well GREAT! There was a topic created callled "Ask the President" and even one aptly named "Association Suggestions"! Read what 'the gatekeeper' wants to ALLOW to be discussed 'now' and ask yourself the following:

Does "Association Suggestions" really mean wether the guys ought to wear blue or pink in the Christmas parade?

And does "Ask the President" really mean wether he is going to bring 'hot dogs for everybody' to the next picnic?

From what I gather; the rest of the members would just as soon keep any questions to their President from being any further in depth or informative than that; as Jeff claims that it is not 'him' that decides these things; it is the rest of the members themselves.

Then tell me, WHY do you have these topics in the first place without a 'disclaimer'? If the citizens of the state of MI. have to find out about a lawsuit regarding trail maintenance 'on their own' or have to 'badger' their orv board representative to 'continually' SET DATES FOR THE NEXT MEETING in order to learn things like what's happening in Lansing or when we can ever get elected representation........................what use does this site provide other than being the conduit for a social club and a 'censored' barrier from what was promised in the first place? I fully realize that a lot of people in this club would just as soon use the site as a way to plan on getting away from their wives or 'kid' each other and could care LESS what the particulars are in a million dollar lawsuit regarding trail maintenance. But DON'T portray the club as 'one' thing to get people's money and 'another' (pure social interaction only) when people start asking legitimate questions about what the sport of atving in MI. is actually all about!. 'Sorry', but I've WENT to the orv board meetings and get the minutes mailed to me every two months(you never have any idea what is going to be discussed either 'before' or 'after' and don't BOTHER trying to discuss it on the site....so why go?). And DON'T tell me that you learn what you need to know by: #1) the meetings themselves; #2) EXTREMELY infrequent and non-accomodating MATVA meetings(you guys don't even know when your 'next' meeting is going to get around to be SCHEDULED; AND DON'T CARE!) and #3) a TOTAL lack of ability to interact with other members on any issues brought up in either one of them! What kind of website, or for that matter, 'club' is that?

When I was 'banned' there was support (that I neither solicited nor needed) for the fact that there was no specific reason for my departure and that it was purely the president's decision (I was even told by Jeff that he would, (oh glory be!), 'reconsider' my membership (I would never come back). Now I see all this 'backslapping' by people who obviously 'know' that I can't respond and from others who just don't want what they said during my departure to upset their 'current' circumstances.

You want to open up a bag of worms?

Let's hear from you or get back to the topic at hand and at least 'start' disputing what I have said regarding the current state of our sport here in Michigan (with 'facts' not 'attacks').

John

p.s. (Gee Jeff, wasn't that all worth 'slamming' me in your little website 'cocoon'?).[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

 

Blackballed, no ofense here but it's about time you said something that has a topic. I just want to say that in the beginning you came out of no where and started slammimg some of my ideas. We all know and including you that you had a malicious intent. Now that you are really bringing up an issue then I would be glad to talk about that on a proffessional level. My ideas had nothing to do with trail conditions in MI. Now I am sure you can figure out why that the voice will be heard where the money is. Although I sympathize with your trail conditons out in the rural area but lets face it you need money and population where you are at to get some attention over there as I had talked about in my earlier post. I want to make myself very clear here. I understand all problems and agree with everyone's concerns, if all of our problems could get fixed then it would benifit everyone. The whole reason behind having a group of people getting together is to battle these problems. I can not speak for the group that you have issues with for I do not know all of thier causes but i will listen. The issues that I see is to "attack" the state and dictate to them how our money is spent. I am not trying to be argumentative but the action will be put where the money is and the majority of population thats how is has always been. The only way to fix that is to find a way to use it to your advantage. Like I said I have been before a legislative commitee and can see how things are decided. Personally myself I would like to go after some of the laws and change the wording around. I am confident that this can be done by us sticking together and offering the scenarios that I mentioned earlier. I know that all of you would like to see some of those laws changed. Blackballed what I speak of can only benifit you. I also want to say that more riding areas where I live could affect the money that is spent where you are if that's what your getting at but the people have a choice and it will go where the population is. Just like a vote for president "majority rules" because it's the people's money that is being spent to get it. I want to stray away from the population issue alittle bit and go right for the laws so it would not matter where you live. The reason for this is because where I live we are all out of state land to have public trail systems. Now a "pay to play" as we all know would be private and there is nothing we can do about that because it would some private individual wanting to make money. The country we live in is free to do that. That person would have to own a piece of property and then buy some insurance and put up a sign! I don't always agree with something like that but I have no say in it. If you really want your trail systems fixed then bring it up with your townships and have them go to the state and battle it out. There are a hundred ways to get someone to listen you just have to figure out who to talk to. I want to get my county ordinance changed down here just for starters. I believe that if I can accomplish this then it would set presidence for people to follow. Trust me, I am on everyones side when it comes to hopping on an ATV. If there is anything I am not clear on then please ask me so I can explain better.

 

Please read slow and excuse my grammar! I know that it is terrible when I get in a hurry.....lol

 

If you don't mind, fatts, I'm just going to reference your comments in quotes and simply comment right below them to keep us both on the same page. Thanks.

[quote]
Originally posted by: fatts
" I just want to say that in the beginning you came out of no where and started slammimg some of my ideas.........."

(blacballed's response):If I 'slammed' any of your ideas when trying to state the facts of the situation here in MI.; I truly am sorry you took it that way.

(fatts):"......We all know and including you that you had a malicious intent........"

(blackballed's response)[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]lol) I don't even 'know' you and certainly wouldn't malicously malign you on purpose! It's kind of like claiming that I want to 'malicously' hurt this club............after you've spent as much time stating facts as I have and NOBODY has ever bothered to state that you are just plain 'wrong' regarding what has been stated...........what else are club members to say, other than "he's a bastard" and "we don't want to talk about it"?

"....My ideas had nothing to do with trail conditions in MI......."

Unfortunately, fatts, anybody (including this club) who states that their MAIN GOAL is to establish a riding area in SE MI.; WHILE REFUSING TO TALK about the current condition of the trails we already have and how much it is going to cost to better avoid lawsuits like we've just experienced..............what else exactly do they want 'nothing to do with'?

".......Now I am sure you can figure out why that the voice will be heard where the money is. Although I sympathize with your trail conditons out in the rural area but lets face it you need money and population where you are at to get some attention over there as I had talked about in my earlier post............"

(lol) And you guys wonder why I get on you about your 'big city Detroit' mentality! We need MONEY and POPULATION where we are? Do you have any concept of the fact that 'where we are' just happens to be where the entire ORV trail system is? We all KNOW that you city folk actually believe that because there's more of you with more money; that you all ought to certainly be able to run the whole state from the suburbs............but do you have to come out and PROVE it with statements like that?

....."I want to make myself very clear here. I understand all problems and agree with everyone's concerns, if all of our problems could get fixed then it would benifit everyone......"

I don't know what in the hell kind of political statement 'that' was; but I can certainly tell already that you don't have a 'clue' as to what the problems are and certainly don't agree with anywhere near 'everyone'.

"......The issues that I see is to "attack" the state and dictate to them how our money is spent........."

Again, I have no idea what you are talking about. I had a state orv board representative describe the relationship between 'other' clubs and the state with this 'strongarm' reference in the past and that person didn't come off to me as he was too awful impressed with this strategy................... and I wholeheartedly agree with him.

......"I am not trying to be argumentative but the action will be put where the money is and the majority of population thats how is has always been........"

I want you to take your thoughts DIRECTLY to the president of the Michigan ATV Assoc. under the "Ask the President" section and debate your theory so all of us can contribute. Honestly, you might just get your dues waived if you can rally the members around that kind of logic!

......"Personally myself I would like to go after some of the laws and change the wording around. I am confident that this can be done by us sticking together and offering the scenarios that I mentioned earlier.........."


When you're up there on the site rallying the President as to exactly 'what' laws and wording all his members should 'go after' and change.........don't forget the 'scenario' part because you lost me and I want to pick back up on it.

....."Blackballed what I speak of can only benifit you. I also want to say that more riding areas where 'I' live could affect the money that is spent where you are if that's what your getting at but the people have a choice and it will go where the population is........."

Gosh, all of us poor country folk out here would really 'benefit' through the generosity of the good people of Detroit, AGAIN! I would also take that second statement about where the money ought to go and shout it out at the next MATVA meeting; they just may carry you out on their shoulders!

......"Just like a vote for president "majority rules" because it's the PEOPLE'S money that is being spent to get it..........."

The whole club just named a 'mud-hole' at the Mounds after you!

....."I want to stray away from the population issue alittle bit and go right for the laws so it would not matter where you live......"

(lol) Alrightee, then; we're definitely switching gears 'here'..............


....."The reason for this is because WHERE I LIVE we are all out of state land to have public trail systems......."

My gosh, I can tell already that this is going to get 'ugly'...............where in the hell do you live and what could you possibly be inferring with 'that' statement? And if those public trail systems are 'broken'; just allow new ones to be built if somebody has 'the land'?

...."Now a "pay to play" as we all know would be private and there is nothing we can do about that because it would some private individual wanting to make money. The country we live in is free to do that. That person would have to own a piece of property and then buy some insurance and put up a sign!......."

WE CAN DO PLENTY ABOUT IT and I would ask you to question our state orv board representative as to what capacity is both he and any other state official involved in this. I'm sorry, but when people refuse to talk about these things IN PUBLIC; what exactly are the rest of us country bumpkins to assume? There is 'nothing we can do about it' for all the reasons you mentioned above? Just how 'arrogant' can you people actually get over there?

......"If you really want your trail systems fixed then bring it up with your townships and have them go to the state and battle it out........"

Sorry, but we were told that our state orv advisory board representative would be the best person to bring our concerns to, and so far, we haven't found any evidence that it does anything but upset people by even bringing this subject up (imagine that).

......" There are a hundred ways to get someone to listen you just have to figure out who to talk to......."

We now EXACTLY who to talk to and who has had the responsibility to at LEAST listen.

...."I want to get my county ordinance changed down here just for starters. I believe that if I can accomplish this then it would set presidence for people to follow. Trust me, I am on everyones side when it comes to hopping on an ATV. If there is anything I am not clear on then please ask me so I can explain better.........."

I think I'm pretty clear on what you believe and think you should definitely send in your $20 to MATVA and become the "pro S.E. MI." orator that they so desperately need. Maybe you can even turn around members like 'mudbuggy' who stated the following when he wasn't too happy about all this 'nonsense' from me either:

........."to be honest with you
all I care about is riding. If I get a day to do whatever I want it will not be spent
at an ORV board meeting or doing trail maintenance........"

Maybe YOU can get members like this to at 'least' become excited about riding out their own back door at a new riding area! I'm sorry, 'that's right'............................this promise has 'already' become the ONE thing that has kept Detroit riders, like 'mudbuggy', extremely happy and their mouths 'shut'.

Good response, fatts, we just couldn't disagree more on how you Detroit folks 'think' you actually relate and appear to the rest of our state's riders.

John

 

I'm with you blackballed, give 'em hell!

FORMER MATVA MEMBER