OK. I read the article. So here's your major problem: Obama and his goons do not run these businesses. Yes, they fired CEOs who ran us into the ground....Good for them. Do they run these businesses day-to-day with government employees / management like socialist or communist countries do? Answer: NO. The gov't is a stockholder like you and me. Do they intend to stay in these businesses once they're back on their feet? Answer: NO. Are the tax-payers of this country going to make some money off this in the next 10 years......Hopefullly, if they recover as planned. Socialist/Fascist/Marxist/Communist, I think not.

Obviously you or nobody in your family works for one of these bailed out companies; otherwise you'd have a slightly different opinion....Since these same people are able to keep their jobs and families afloat, for now. These people had nothing to do with this and have lost everything. The big bad government shouldn't have got involved with the poor CEOs that got out with multi-million dollar parachutes after destroying huge icons of American manufacturing dominance. Isn't that what we're all to believe now? I think not. Go ahead, defend the poor CEOs and the multi-million dollar bonus scums.

 

Only time will tell. Right now I'm watching my father get screwed by corporate America. Honeywell International maker of wheels and brakes for fighter jets is where my dad works, South Bend Indiana. He is a Union Maintence Electrician and is 56 years old. 3 years ago Honeywell opened 3 new plants, Guess where? 1 in Mexico and 2 in China. Since then he has had a 30% pay cut(overtime),and just this past week salary workers(white collar) just had a 10% pay cut.He has told me equipment has been packed up and moved but the plant is still up and running. That is a sign of things to come. Do you think these corporate morons are gonna take there big pay cuts? Hell no! They will shut down plants and move out of the country for cheep labor,screwing thousands of workers in the process. These companies need incentives to stay but a failing economy,strict enviro regulations,and the fact that we Americans work for more than other countries people is not helping the process. Give them a reason not to move out!

 

Sad to hear and really unfortunate for your family. That's a little different from the discussion above, but I hear ya, loud and clear. More and more tax breaks for these companies is NOT the answer. They get substantial tax breaks as it is. They regularly threaten local economies and states with this in order to squeeze more. We'll move our offices and factories south if you don't lower your rate. The #1 reason they're going south is CHEAP LABOR. The can get six Mexicans working for the hourly rate of your father. Is your father suddenly supposed to work for 1/6 his prior wage? How is he supposed to keep your family afloat....forget any college assistance from your family. You'll need lots of student loans (backed by the big bad government) to have a chance at an education. Who's going to pay the taxes on his lost wages to keep the schools and local governments afloat? Those kind of economies (1/6 cheaper) are not won over with another 10% tax break. And guess who's going to pay the 10% they don't pay.....all the rest of us.

Keep this in mind: Obama has already said that he will give a tax incentive to companies to stay in the U.S. And there will be a tax penalty for those who send American jobs overseas. I'd have to do some research to know more details, but at least he's talking about it. Hope he does something about it.

What does it say about our "poor" CEOs and corrupt board members that abandon their workers that built the company (sometimes generations of families) and the American middle class? Who's going to pay the difference when they pack up? They should tell them fine,....go to Mexico, but when the $hit hits the fan there and the place implodes, you're going to be paying the back taxes, plus a % interest when you come crying to get back in. That'll make them think twice before they pack up.

I think it's in the best interest of this discussion to keep corporate tax rates and personal income tax rates separate. It's easy to mix and match, but they don't have a lot in common....other than they're taxes, which nobody is a big fan of.

 

With the huge budget ($3.5 TRILLION) that is about to be signed by Obama, witch will take decades to pay for, I foresee even the middle class tax rate going to well over 50%! And could go to 65-70%! You think you pay high taxes now?! Wait until this goes into it's second or third year and they (the money sucking politicians) will be telling us they "have" to raise tax's to pay for this huge mistake!
JMO!

 

Understand completely. But it'll never be that rate. Our ability to borrow from our allies, and China will diminish though. The value of the dollar will drop. Regardless, the actual tax rate between ~80K and 350K is only ~4% different. And you know the guy who's at the 350K level will have massive deductions. "Nobody" pays the full rate aside from those in the lower to lower middle, who don't have accountants and/or professional tax preparers and file the EZ form.

As the economy grows, the tax base will grow and help to pay this debt down. I'm not willing to find out if this was necessary or not, possibly dropping further into a global black hole of eventual depression. This is a bipartisan theory, not some liberal economist view. It's simply a risk I'm glad they're not willing to take. The only thing we have to go on is Hoover's lack of action in the 20s, and that theory didn't prove to be too effective.

 

It's all my fault. I'm the white bread, middle-class, middle-aged, educated Iowan who supported Obama in the Iowa Caucus. Even my "ethno-centric" wife of 25 years supported him, bless her heart! We were fed up with the "give-the-rich-guys-another-tax-break, we're-not-spying-on-our-citizens" administration! Don't even get me started about the Iraq war. Mission Accomplished, my a$$!

I've been laid off all winter due, in part, to the banking debaucle that the deregulated greedy CEO's foisted on us, the middle class. I work for a small, non-union manufacturing co. and the reason I was laid off was banks stopped lending, here and in the rest of the world. A big share of our business is in Europe and the Middle East and they were the first to stop placing orders. We were left sitting on unpaid orders and raw stock. Since I was the last one hired, i was the first to be cut. Understandable but job opportunities here in the midwest are pretty pathetic. No one is hiring unless you wanna flip burgers or be a part-time stockboy for $7/hr. Even the Illegals are either being targeted or moving on.
Our Sen. Chuck Grassley(R), a senior member of the senate finance committee, indeed speaks for Iowans frustrated with the "politics-as-usual" crowd in DC. I've always been a strong proponent for public humiliation for the "holier-than-thou"

The Fox News crowd just makes me want to laugh! I'm surprised they can even spell "fascist". Thank goodness for "cut and paste" huh!

 

Good luck to you Mal. I hope things get better for you and your family going forward.

 

pfft, we doing ok. Business is starting to pick up so there's a chance I might get to go back to work here in the near future.
been thinking of starting my own business, a "green" sustainable venture.

but I digress...

The word that really chapped my hide was the repeated reference to "****", a misguided trust in a misguided leader controlling a reckless power-grabbing elite.
Words like socialism, marxism and communism are beliefs or, in simpler words, things that one has "faith" in. like god or the tooth fairy.
When a reckless administration labels a group as "terrrorists", then there is only one way to solve the problem.
We've all seen how well that's worked...

 

[quote=FunRide;2772699]OK. I read the article. So here's your major problem: Obama and his goons do not run these businesses.

Wrong. They do now; why do you think they picked an entire team just for the auto industry? Almost none of whom drive American made cars, BTW...

Yes, they fired CEOs who ran us into the ground....Good for them.

So it's OK for 0 to fire the head of corporations, but Bush can't fire his own attorneys?


Do they run these businesses day-to-day with government employees / management like socialist or communist countries do? Answer: NO.

Wrong. See above.


The gov't is a stockholder like you and me. Do they intend to stay in these businesses once they're back on their feet? Answer: NO.

Wrong again. Banks have already offered to return 100% of the money they recieved (and in some cases didn't want) - but are not allowed to.


Are the tax-payers of this country going to make some money off this in the next 10 years......Hopefullly, if they recover as planned.

Don't bet on it.


Socialist/Fascist/Marxist/Communist, I think not.

Wrong again.

Obviously you or nobody in your family works for one of these bailed out companies

Still wrong.


The big bad government shouldn't have got involved

Agreed.

CEOs that got out with multi-million dollar parachutes after destroying huge icons of American manufacturing dominance.

Do you mean like those at Fannie & Freddy?


You can’t even stick to your own commitments – “I'm done with these political forums” really – then why did you post several more times after that?


“Obama has already said that he will give a tax incentive to companies to stay in the U.S. And there will be a tax penalty for those who send American jobs overseas.”

Do you really believe that? He is about to raise the tax on energy so high that it won’t matter what he does; American companies will not be able to compete.

 

Wrong. Not the actual companies day to day business. See prior discussion on bankruptcy.

Clearly, you know nothing about the difference between private business and the federal government and how they operate. Bush fired attorneys for political reasons.....He corrupted the Dept. of Justice. So yes, it's OK to fire a CEO who ran GM into the ground for 10 years and now the tax payers have to bail them out. You won't know government corruption if it was staring you in the face, as you clearly describe.


Wrong. See above


There's a reason for that. We're not out of the hot water yet. So then we're suppose to make more loans when they fail again? They've been asked to keep the money for roughly another year. Nothing will make "O" look better than the banks paying the money back after they're safe. You're paranoid Dawg.


Who's "betting on it". My response was...."Hopefullly, if they recover as planned." So that was hopfully, not I'm betting on it.

Wrong...See Above. You couldn't define Socialist or Fascist if you had to. As somebody else said, cut and paste is a wonderful thing.

Was I talking directly to you....NO.

Yeah, like them.

You're right, I did say that. I will be dialing it back however. In the mean time, if you don't like the post, it's simple....don't click on them and then read and reply to them.

We'll see. He won't be in office very long if that's the case.

Keep dreaming for the worst. You're REALLY good at it.....and can some more food for the coming apocalypse.