I don't really go for "corporate spin". I go for trying to keep things to a point we can get by as a family and maybe have a little left over. Every time a little tax or fee gets increased means I have less in my wallet to spend on my family. But, what is not funny about the so-called taxes on corporations is that their costs will filter down to the consumer. As an example, if my work truck gets taxed extra because it is a gas guzzler and I can't afford a hybrid where am I going to get the money from? I have to have a vehicle that can meet my needs, carry all my tools around, or go get a lift of 2x4s for a job. I already pay higher taxes through the fuel taxes at the pump. I'll have to charge my customers more. Taxation hurts everyone, not just the big, bad old, corporations. Pollution from the West is not as much an issue here in the NE as it used to be.

The funniest thing about the cap and trade talk is that Nancy Pelosi stated that the US House of Representatives would be made more energy efficient to come into compliance with the environmental measures they would be passing. She came out about a month ago and announced that it would not be happening because it was too expensive. But, they are more than willing to impose these measures on private companies and citizens. Somehow, I find that a bit hypocritical.

 

So, what's the solution? Continue to make it profitable to drive gas-guzzlers so the working class can move up and pollute even more? (like they would move up anyway... Having been in the construction business myself I know the sort... Paycheck to paycheck and bills will ALWAYS rise to meet income no matter how high the income goes.... Its an attitude, but anyway....). The idea is that we're cleaning the place up. Its not intended to be easy on everyone. Some will take it on the chin, no doubt.

 

I guess I look at it seeing that we are polluting less and less each year due to current laws. Developing nations like Indian and China aren't going to be paying it. We run the risk of ruining our economy. The reasons for cap and trade aren't really there in my mind. If CO2 emissions were the culprit we should have seen environmental warming in the late 1800s and early 1900s when emissions were horrendously worse than they are now. Even if you include pre-EPA days there was not any global warming. Do I think we should make our water undrinkable and air unbreathable? NOPE. Should we panic and spend untold trillions on cap and trade based on 1 degree of change over 100 years. NOPE. There are too many factors beyond our control like sunspot activity, solar flares, and volcanoes that have far greater effect than we do. Just my .02 worth. I don't want to see the well to do become middle class, and the middle class become impovershed.

Oh, and I was doing well as a carpenter and doing better every year until I hurt my back helping a friend move.

 

That sucks Moose. There's no surgery or something along those lines that can help?

 

I think there is more to the pollution that just co2, but I don't know what. All I know is people have a tendency to be inefficient and wasteful until they're forced to make the change.... Usually for economic reasons and not for a feeling of responsibilty. Otherwise, why would proverbs say, "He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster."?

 

I'm sure there is. Just a matter of money or insurance. I know a few guys that had to have back surgery. One guy worked with me for a while, then helped someone move and threw his back out. He ended up in surgery and felt much better afterward. My grandma had back surgery after putting up with the pain for 20,30,40 yrs or so. She said if she knew it would be like this, she'd done it years ago instead of waiting till age 76 when a body doesn't heal as well as it used to.

I have sciatic nerve trouble, but find stretching to help a lot. Finding time and making myself stretch is another story though.

 

There definitely is more than CO2. Sulfur dioxide is a major problem. The sulfur (in combination with other chemicals) is primarily what kills the fish. The mercury has all kinds of effects on the unborn and the young of all mammals. All that junk drifts in the high altitudes waiting to rain down on us in NY, Vermont, NH, MA, and Maine. Don't want to exclude the rest of the NE, NJ and PA. Governors of both parties have threatened various responses, yet it continues. It's a problem and now the feds are stepping in.

A truer thing could not be stated. It's basic economics.

 

JustRandy, I'm a big guy that has always had trouble losing weight. When I worked 40-50 hours a week doing carpentry it wasn't a problem to lose 1-2 pounds with a little effort. But, because of the back the weight is here as I can't do more than a couple hours of strenuous work per week. Rock and hard place scenario as they won't operate unless it gets worse or I lose 100 lbs.

I can only speak of New England when I say the problems of acid rain, and other pollutants is 1/10 th of what it was when I was younger. There is not really any talk of the kind of severe pollution that was talked about 10, 20 years ago. I fish most of New England and have never seen a greater variety of clean water species thriving. I'm not saying there is no pollution. But, at least up here, there is much, much less. The things they worry about now at lakes and ponds are that we be careful not to transport invasive species of plants and animals from waterway to waterway on our boats. Water millfoil, zebra mussels, and purple loosestrife are big concerns. I've seen our local river, the historic Concord River, go from a dingy, smelly, barely support junk fish, river to a relatively clean river that can support huge Northern Pike. (I lost one within inches of my boat last year. UGGGGGHHHH.)

 

True, but it's still a problem. You just don't hear about it as much anymore because it's not crisis mode. Rivers are not the issue, lakes and ponds are. No, it has nothing to do with liberals. Are you familiar with Asthma?

ASTHMA is a chronic inflammatory disease of the bronchial airways that causes variable--and often reversible--airflow obstruction and associated episodes of wheezing, coughing, and breathlessness. (1) The effects of asthma are substantial--both in terms of health and monetary costs. In 1995 an estimated 14.9 million people suffered from asthma in the United States, which resulted in approximately 1.5 million visits to emergency rooms, 500,000 hospitalizations, more than 5500 deaths, and $11.3 billion in direct and indirect costs. (2)

The prevalence of asthma has been increasing in the United States during the past 2 decades. Although this trend is evident in all age groups, asthma prevalence has risen most sharply in children under the age of 5 yr: from 22.2/1000 in 1980 to 57.8/1000 in 1994 (i.e., an increase of 160%). In children 5-14 yr of age, asthma prevalence has risen by 74%--from 42.8/1000 to 74.4/1000 during the same aforementioned time period. The asthma prevalences for these 2 age groups were higher than for any other age group. (2) The hospitalization rate for asthma has also been steadily increasing, both in New York State (3) and in the United States as a whole. (4)

 

I've seen these studies also. I don't know what the solution is. I think there probably is more than one cause though. I wonder about crowding in schools, and cities. I wonder about genetic causes. But, I'm no doctor either. When I was a kid, my families car, for instance spewed out so much garbage it amazes me. I look at the tapes that the inspection stations give me and have watched all emissions go down steadily as car makers get better at making them more clean. I've even had a few Japanese makes that almost had no emmissions from the pipe. 1985 Nissan 2.4 liter and a 1987 Toyota 4Runner 2.4. I imagine they are even better now. I think they are heading in the right direction in reducing emissions. I used to see smog over Boston in the summer (coming down Route 2 into Boston) It is not as common as it was just 5-10 years ago. Again, I'm only looking from my view here in the NE area. As far as the usage tax goes I'd like to see a flat 10% sales tax on goods and get rid of the whole tax code. We could get rid of the IRS and its mountain high tax code in a heartbeat. Yay!