Tell me this isn't socialism!!!!!
#21
10-26-2009, 09:46 PM
Let us delve deep into the Constitutional assault by Bush / Cheney and friends over the last eight years.
Read them all Moose and verify every link. Wait, don't tell me: They're all liars and Socalists, Communists or *****.
2001
January
Presidential directive delays indefinitely the scheduled release of presidential documents (authorized by the Presidential Records Act of 1978) pertaining to the Reagan-Bush administration. Link
Bush and Cheney begin process of radically broadening scope of documents and information which can be deemed classified. Link
February
The National Security Agency (NSA) sets up Project Groundbreaker, a domestic call monitoring program infrastructure. Link
Spring
Bush administration order authorizes NSA monitoring of domestic phone and internet traffic. Link
May
US Supreme Court rules that medical necessity is not a permissible defense against federal marijuana statutes. Link
September
In immediate aftermath of 9-11 terror attacks, Department of Justice authorizes detention without charge for any terror suspects. Over one thousand suspects are brought into detention over the next several months. Link (pdf)
October
Attorney General John Ashcroft announces change in Department of Justice (DOJ) policy. According to the new policy DOJ will impose far more stringent criteria for the granting of Freedom of Information Act requests. Link
September-October
NSA launches massive new database of information on US phone calls. Link
October
The USA Patriot Act becomes law. Among other things the law: makes it a crime for anyone to contribute money or material support for any group on the State Department’s Terror Watch List, allows the FBI to monitor and tape conversations between attorneys and clients, allows the FBI to order librarians to turn over information about patron’s reading habits, allows the government to conduct surveillance on internet and email use of US citizens without notice. The act also calls for expanded use of National Security Letters (NSLs), which allow the FBI to search telephone, email and financial records of US citizens without a court order, exempts the government from needing to reveal how evidence against suspected terrorists was obtained and authorizes indefinite detention of immigrants at the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities.
NJ Superior court judge and civil liberties scholar Anthony Napolitano, author of A Nation of Sheep, has described the law’s assault on first and fourth amendment principles as follows, “The Patriot Act’s two most principle constitutional errors are an assault on the Fourth Amendment, and on the First. It permits federal agents to write their own search warrants [under the name “national security letters”] with no judge having examined evidence and agreed that it’s likely that the person or thing the government wants to search will reveal evidence of a crime… Not only that, but the Patriot Act makes it a felony for the recipient of a self-written search warrant to reveal it to anyone. The Patriot Act allows [agents] to serve self-written search warrants on financial institutions, and the Intelligence Authorization Act of 2004 in Orwellian language defines that to include in addition to banks, also delis, bodegas, restaurants, hotels, doctors' offices, lawyers’ offices, telecoms, HMOs, hospitals, casinos, jewelry dealers, automobile dealers, boat dealers, and that great financial institution to which we all would repose our fortunes, the post office. Link 1 | Link 2
November
Executive order limits release of presidential documents. The order gives incumbent presidents the right to veto requests to open any past presidential records and supercedes the congressionally passed law of 1978 mandating release of all presidential records not explicitly deemed classified. Link
2002
Winter
FBI and Department of Defense (DOD), forbidden by law from compiling databases on US citizens, begin contracting with private database firm ChoicePoint to collect, store, search and maintain data. Link
Spring
Secret executive order issued authorizing NSA to wiretap the phones and read emails of US citizens. Link
Spring
Transportation Security Adminstration (TSA) acknowledges it has created both a “No Fly” and a separate “Watch” list of US travelers. Link
May
Department of Justice authorizes the FBI to monitor political and religious groups. The new rules permit the FBI to broadly search or monitor the internet for evidence of criminal activity without having any tips or leads that a specific criminal act has been committed. Link
June
Supreme Court upholds the right of school administrators to conduct mandatory drug testing of students without probable cause. Link
November
Homeland Security Act of 2002 establishes separate Department of Homeland Security. Among other things the department will federally coordinate for the first time all local and state law enforcement nationwide and run a Directorate of Information and Analysis with authority to compile comprehensive data on US citizens using public and commercial records including credit card, phone, bank, and travel. The department also will be exempt form Freedom of Information Act disclosure requirements. The Homeland Security department’s jurisdiction has been widely criticized for being nebulously defined and has extended beyond terrorism into areas including immigration, pornography and drug enforcement. Link 1 | Link 2
2003
February
Draft of Domestic Security Enhancement Act (aka Patriot Act 2), a secret document prepared by the Department of Justice is leaked by the Center for Public Integrity. Provisions of the February 7th draft version included:
Removal of court-ordered prohibitions against police agencies spying on domestic groups.
The FBI would be granted powers to conduct searches and surveillance based on intelligence gathered in foreign countries without first obtaining a court order.
Creation of a DNA database of suspected terrorists.
Prohibition of any public disclosure of the names of alleged terrorists including those who have been arrested.
Exemptions from civil liability for people and businesses who voluntarily turn private information over to the government.
Criminalization of the use of encryption to conceal incriminating communications.
Automatic denial of bail for persons accused of terrorism-related crimes, reversing the ordinary common law burden of proof principle. All alleged terrorists would be required to demonstrate why they should be released on bail rather than the government being required to demonstrate why they should be held.
Expansion of the list of crimes eligible for the death penalty.
The United States Environmental Protection Agency would be prevented from releasing "worst case scenario" information to the public about chemical plants.
United States citizens whom the government finds to be either members of, or providing material support to, terrorist groups could have their US citizenship revoked and be deported to foreign countries.
Although the bill itself has never (yet) been advanced in congress due to public exposure, some of its provisions have become law as parts of other bills. For example The Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004 grants the FBI unprecedented power to obtain records from financial institutions without requiring permission from a judge. Under the law, the FBI does not need to seek a court order to access such records, nor does it need to prove just cause. Link 1 | Link 2
March
Executive order issued which radically tightens the declassification process of classified government documents, as well as making it far easier for government agencies to make and keep information classified. The order delayed by three years the release of declassified government documents dating from 1978 or earlier. It also allowed the government to treat all material sent to American officials from foreign governments -- no matter how routine -- as subject to classification, and expanded the ability of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to shield documents from declassification. Finally it gave the vice president the power to classify information. Link 1 | Link 2
March
In a ruling seen as a victory for the concentration of ownership of intellectual property and an erosion of the public domain, the Supreme Court in Eldred v. Ashcroft held that a 20-year extension of the copyright period (from 50 years after the death of the author to 70 years) called for by the Sonny Bono copyright Extension not violate either the Copyright Clause or the First Amendment. Link
April
In Demore v. Kim, the Supreme Court ruled that even permanent residents could be subject to mandatory detention when facing deportation based on a prior criminal conviction, without any right to an individualized hearing to determine whether they were dangerous or a flight risk. Link
Fall
The FBI changes its traditional policy of destroying all data and documents collected on innocent citizens in the course of criminal investigations. This information would, according to the bureau, now be permanently stored. Two years later in late 2005 Executive Order 13388, expanded access to those files for "state, local and tribal" governments and for "appropriate private sector entities," which are not defined. Link 1 | Link 2
Fall
As authorized by the Patriot Act, the FBI expands the practice of national security letters. NSLs, originally introduced in the 1970s for espionage and terrorism investigations, enabled the FBI to review in secret the customer records of suspected foreign agents. This was extended by the Patriot Act to include permitting clandestine scrutiny of all U.S. residents and visitors whether suspected of terrorism or not. Link
2004
January
The FBI begins keeping a database of US citizens based on information obtained via NSLs. Link
Spring
John Ashcroft invokes State Secrets privilege to forbid former FBI translator Sibel Edmunds from testifying in a case brought by families of victims of the 9-11 attacks. Litigation by 9-11 families is subsequently halted. Link 1 | Link 2
June
Supreme Court upholds Nevada state law allowing police to arrest suspects who refuse to provide identification based on police discretion of “reasonable suspicion.” Link
2005
January
Supreme court rules that police do not need to have probable cause to have drug sniffing dogs examine cars stopped for routine traffic violations. Link 1 | Link 2
June
Supreme Court rules that the federal government can prosecute medical marijuana users even in states which have laws permitting medical marijuana. Link
Summer
The Patriot Act, due to expire at the end of 2005, is reauthorized by Congress. Link
Winter 2005
Senate blocks reauthorization of certain clauses in Patriot Act. Link
2006
March
Senate passes amended version of Patriot Act, reauthorization, with three basic changes from the original including: recipients of secret court orders to turn over sensitive information on individuals linked to terrorism investigations are not allowed to disclose those orders but can challenge the gag order after a year, libraries would not be required to turn over information without the approval of a judge, recipients of an FBI "national security letter" -- an investigator's demand for access to personal or business information -- would not have to tell the FBI if they consult a lawyer. New bill also said to extend Congressional oversight over executive department usage guidelines. Shortly after bill is signed George Bush declares oversight rules are not binding. Link 1 | Link 2
June
Supreme court rules that evidence obtained in violation of the “knock and announce” rules can still be permitted in court. Link
September
US Congress and Senate approve the Military Commissions Act, which authorizes torture and strips non- US citizen detainees suspected of terrorist ties of the right of habeas corpus (which includes formal charges, counsel and hearings). It also empowers US presidents at their discretion to declare US citizens as enemy combatants and subject to detention without charge or due process. Link 1 | Link 2 | Link 3
October
John Warner Defense Authorization Act is passed. The act allows a president to declare a public emergency and station US military troops anywhere in America as well as take control of state based national guard units without consent of the governor or other local authorities. The law authorizes presidential deployment of US troops to round-up and detain “potential terrorists”, “illegal aliens” and “disorderly” citizenry. Link 1 | Link 2
2007
May
National Security Presidential Directive 51 (NSPD-51) establishes a new post-disaster plan (with disaster defined as any incident, natural or man-made, resulting in extraordinary mass casualties, damage or disruption) which places the president in charge of all three branches of government. The directive overrides the National Emergencies Act which gives Congress power to determine the duration of a national emergency. Link 1 | Link 2
Read them all Moose and verify every link. Wait, don't tell me: They're all liars and Socalists, Communists or *****.
2001
January
Presidential directive delays indefinitely the scheduled release of presidential documents (authorized by the Presidential Records Act of 1978) pertaining to the Reagan-Bush administration. Link
Bush and Cheney begin process of radically broadening scope of documents and information which can be deemed classified. Link
February
The National Security Agency (NSA) sets up Project Groundbreaker, a domestic call monitoring program infrastructure. Link
Spring
Bush administration order authorizes NSA monitoring of domestic phone and internet traffic. Link
May
US Supreme Court rules that medical necessity is not a permissible defense against federal marijuana statutes. Link
September
In immediate aftermath of 9-11 terror attacks, Department of Justice authorizes detention without charge for any terror suspects. Over one thousand suspects are brought into detention over the next several months. Link (pdf)
October
Attorney General John Ashcroft announces change in Department of Justice (DOJ) policy. According to the new policy DOJ will impose far more stringent criteria for the granting of Freedom of Information Act requests. Link
September-October
NSA launches massive new database of information on US phone calls. Link
October
The USA Patriot Act becomes law. Among other things the law: makes it a crime for anyone to contribute money or material support for any group on the State Department’s Terror Watch List, allows the FBI to monitor and tape conversations between attorneys and clients, allows the FBI to order librarians to turn over information about patron’s reading habits, allows the government to conduct surveillance on internet and email use of US citizens without notice. The act also calls for expanded use of National Security Letters (NSLs), which allow the FBI to search telephone, email and financial records of US citizens without a court order, exempts the government from needing to reveal how evidence against suspected terrorists was obtained and authorizes indefinite detention of immigrants at the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities.
NJ Superior court judge and civil liberties scholar Anthony Napolitano, author of A Nation of Sheep, has described the law’s assault on first and fourth amendment principles as follows, “The Patriot Act’s two most principle constitutional errors are an assault on the Fourth Amendment, and on the First. It permits federal agents to write their own search warrants [under the name “national security letters”] with no judge having examined evidence and agreed that it’s likely that the person or thing the government wants to search will reveal evidence of a crime… Not only that, but the Patriot Act makes it a felony for the recipient of a self-written search warrant to reveal it to anyone. The Patriot Act allows [agents] to serve self-written search warrants on financial institutions, and the Intelligence Authorization Act of 2004 in Orwellian language defines that to include in addition to banks, also delis, bodegas, restaurants, hotels, doctors' offices, lawyers’ offices, telecoms, HMOs, hospitals, casinos, jewelry dealers, automobile dealers, boat dealers, and that great financial institution to which we all would repose our fortunes, the post office. Link 1 | Link 2
November
Executive order limits release of presidential documents. The order gives incumbent presidents the right to veto requests to open any past presidential records and supercedes the congressionally passed law of 1978 mandating release of all presidential records not explicitly deemed classified. Link
2002
Winter
FBI and Department of Defense (DOD), forbidden by law from compiling databases on US citizens, begin contracting with private database firm ChoicePoint to collect, store, search and maintain data. Link
Spring
Secret executive order issued authorizing NSA to wiretap the phones and read emails of US citizens. Link
Spring
Transportation Security Adminstration (TSA) acknowledges it has created both a “No Fly” and a separate “Watch” list of US travelers. Link
May
Department of Justice authorizes the FBI to monitor political and religious groups. The new rules permit the FBI to broadly search or monitor the internet for evidence of criminal activity without having any tips or leads that a specific criminal act has been committed. Link
June
Supreme Court upholds the right of school administrators to conduct mandatory drug testing of students without probable cause. Link
November
Homeland Security Act of 2002 establishes separate Department of Homeland Security. Among other things the department will federally coordinate for the first time all local and state law enforcement nationwide and run a Directorate of Information and Analysis with authority to compile comprehensive data on US citizens using public and commercial records including credit card, phone, bank, and travel. The department also will be exempt form Freedom of Information Act disclosure requirements. The Homeland Security department’s jurisdiction has been widely criticized for being nebulously defined and has extended beyond terrorism into areas including immigration, pornography and drug enforcement. Link 1 | Link 2
2003
February
Draft of Domestic Security Enhancement Act (aka Patriot Act 2), a secret document prepared by the Department of Justice is leaked by the Center for Public Integrity. Provisions of the February 7th draft version included:
Removal of court-ordered prohibitions against police agencies spying on domestic groups.
The FBI would be granted powers to conduct searches and surveillance based on intelligence gathered in foreign countries without first obtaining a court order.
Creation of a DNA database of suspected terrorists.
Prohibition of any public disclosure of the names of alleged terrorists including those who have been arrested.
Exemptions from civil liability for people and businesses who voluntarily turn private information over to the government.
Criminalization of the use of encryption to conceal incriminating communications.
Automatic denial of bail for persons accused of terrorism-related crimes, reversing the ordinary common law burden of proof principle. All alleged terrorists would be required to demonstrate why they should be released on bail rather than the government being required to demonstrate why they should be held.
Expansion of the list of crimes eligible for the death penalty.
The United States Environmental Protection Agency would be prevented from releasing "worst case scenario" information to the public about chemical plants.
United States citizens whom the government finds to be either members of, or providing material support to, terrorist groups could have their US citizenship revoked and be deported to foreign countries.
Although the bill itself has never (yet) been advanced in congress due to public exposure, some of its provisions have become law as parts of other bills. For example The Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004 grants the FBI unprecedented power to obtain records from financial institutions without requiring permission from a judge. Under the law, the FBI does not need to seek a court order to access such records, nor does it need to prove just cause. Link 1 | Link 2
March
Executive order issued which radically tightens the declassification process of classified government documents, as well as making it far easier for government agencies to make and keep information classified. The order delayed by three years the release of declassified government documents dating from 1978 or earlier. It also allowed the government to treat all material sent to American officials from foreign governments -- no matter how routine -- as subject to classification, and expanded the ability of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to shield documents from declassification. Finally it gave the vice president the power to classify information. Link 1 | Link 2
March
In a ruling seen as a victory for the concentration of ownership of intellectual property and an erosion of the public domain, the Supreme Court in Eldred v. Ashcroft held that a 20-year extension of the copyright period (from 50 years after the death of the author to 70 years) called for by the Sonny Bono copyright Extension not violate either the Copyright Clause or the First Amendment. Link
April
In Demore v. Kim, the Supreme Court ruled that even permanent residents could be subject to mandatory detention when facing deportation based on a prior criminal conviction, without any right to an individualized hearing to determine whether they were dangerous or a flight risk. Link
Fall
The FBI changes its traditional policy of destroying all data and documents collected on innocent citizens in the course of criminal investigations. This information would, according to the bureau, now be permanently stored. Two years later in late 2005 Executive Order 13388, expanded access to those files for "state, local and tribal" governments and for "appropriate private sector entities," which are not defined. Link 1 | Link 2
Fall
As authorized by the Patriot Act, the FBI expands the practice of national security letters. NSLs, originally introduced in the 1970s for espionage and terrorism investigations, enabled the FBI to review in secret the customer records of suspected foreign agents. This was extended by the Patriot Act to include permitting clandestine scrutiny of all U.S. residents and visitors whether suspected of terrorism or not. Link
2004
January
The FBI begins keeping a database of US citizens based on information obtained via NSLs. Link
Spring
John Ashcroft invokes State Secrets privilege to forbid former FBI translator Sibel Edmunds from testifying in a case brought by families of victims of the 9-11 attacks. Litigation by 9-11 families is subsequently halted. Link 1 | Link 2
June
Supreme Court upholds Nevada state law allowing police to arrest suspects who refuse to provide identification based on police discretion of “reasonable suspicion.” Link
2005
January
Supreme court rules that police do not need to have probable cause to have drug sniffing dogs examine cars stopped for routine traffic violations. Link 1 | Link 2
June
Supreme Court rules that the federal government can prosecute medical marijuana users even in states which have laws permitting medical marijuana. Link
Summer
The Patriot Act, due to expire at the end of 2005, is reauthorized by Congress. Link
Winter 2005
Senate blocks reauthorization of certain clauses in Patriot Act. Link
2006
March
Senate passes amended version of Patriot Act, reauthorization, with three basic changes from the original including: recipients of secret court orders to turn over sensitive information on individuals linked to terrorism investigations are not allowed to disclose those orders but can challenge the gag order after a year, libraries would not be required to turn over information without the approval of a judge, recipients of an FBI "national security letter" -- an investigator's demand for access to personal or business information -- would not have to tell the FBI if they consult a lawyer. New bill also said to extend Congressional oversight over executive department usage guidelines. Shortly after bill is signed George Bush declares oversight rules are not binding. Link 1 | Link 2
June
Supreme court rules that evidence obtained in violation of the “knock and announce” rules can still be permitted in court. Link
September
US Congress and Senate approve the Military Commissions Act, which authorizes torture and strips non- US citizen detainees suspected of terrorist ties of the right of habeas corpus (which includes formal charges, counsel and hearings). It also empowers US presidents at their discretion to declare US citizens as enemy combatants and subject to detention without charge or due process. Link 1 | Link 2 | Link 3
October
John Warner Defense Authorization Act is passed. The act allows a president to declare a public emergency and station US military troops anywhere in America as well as take control of state based national guard units without consent of the governor or other local authorities. The law authorizes presidential deployment of US troops to round-up and detain “potential terrorists”, “illegal aliens” and “disorderly” citizenry. Link 1 | Link 2
2007
May
National Security Presidential Directive 51 (NSPD-51) establishes a new post-disaster plan (with disaster defined as any incident, natural or man-made, resulting in extraordinary mass casualties, damage or disruption) which places the president in charge of all three branches of government. The directive overrides the National Emergencies Act which gives Congress power to determine the duration of a national emergency. Link 1 | Link 2
#22
10-27-2009, 09:03 AM
Pro Rider
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Where was all the great "constitutional" concern during the Bush years? Funny, not much conversation about the constitution then, and the outrageous assault against it. But it was in the name of "national security", right....
If you're trying to follow the Constitution to the letter....good luck. It was purposely written to allow for future interpretation. That's what the Supreme Court is all about, right?
Too many judges now days are trying to change (or write in) laws that have not been passed by the house and senate. Interpreting the law is one thing but changing the law is not in the judicial branch's realm of responsibility.
Funride, you and I will probably never agree on these political issues but I respect your opinion and your right to express it!
#23
10-27-2009, 12:46 PM
Super Moderator
Well, golly JimBob!
Well, golly JimBob!
Once again, Funride, you are putting words in my mouth. I never said Bush was perfect. I preferred him over John Kerry, like his stance on moral issues, thought he was correct to go to war, etc. I didn't like a lot of the things you mentioned though. I really want to see a swing back in the other direction but it seems like the Republicans are just Democrat Lite Version these days. Not all Rep. or Dem. are liberal but Obama certainly is and his cabinet and czar posts are filled with people who want to bring us further down the path away from capitalism towards socialism. Did the Republicans do much of anything to keep us from sliding this direction. Not much from what I can see. It's interesting that you said I would think all your links are lies or produced by liars. I've never said that, that I know of. You on the other hand, have questioned everybody's sources as being suspect many, many times. I'll give them a read and weigh things out. I, as I've said before, am not going to spin my wheels for hours looking up points and counterpoints. I'm simply looking at what we have before us at this time, not what was past. You'll notice I don't go back to Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton too much. Didn't care for either of them, but they aren't in office any longer. Neither is Bush. At some point, we have to look at what Obama, the current Senate, and the current House are doing now and stop trying to blame Bush for the so-called "mess". When will this group take responsibility for what it is trying to do or what it has done instead of saying it's all Bush's fault? This thread is about government taking control of private industry. It's not a good way to go. Is capitalism perfect? By no means. Because people can and will take advantage of loopholes there will always be imperfections. But far worse is the government stepping in and taking over private sector businesses. In capitalism you either sink or swim. In big government they throw billions of taxpayers FUTURE tax revenews at failed companies. Barney Frank is even starting to talk about government takeover of businesses that are, "too big to fail". This is the same Barney Frank that started the, "give loans to those who might not be able to pay them back or else", debacle.
#24
11-01-2009, 10:22 AM
What turns me off these days is the hard right rhetoric. I just don't like the divisiveness it creates between people. I prefer conversation about issues, not screaming like 3 year olds in town hall meetings.
#25
11-01-2009, 10:46 AM
I hear ya on the point counter-point, research issue. This is why I make no grand statements about who's a communist or who's a ****. Just look at the title of this post.
Funny how the successes put forth by Bush and Obama (bailouts) and the fact that we even have an economy right now is never discussed. Stock markets are coming back up. Economy is starting to show minor signs of life.
It's all about politics and regaining control through visions of socialism, and government take-overs. Again, just look at the titles of the posts in this politics area.
I'm goin' for a ride!
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