It'll happen if they reinstate the draft.

3/4 of the small business people in the southern tier of the country rely on cheap Mexican labor. Not sure what they're going to do for workers. Who's going to roof the houses and seed lawns, landscape properties, wash dishes? The white or black dude on welfare isn't going to do it. All the youth these days think they're too good to have job like that. Mommy and Daddy have convinced them they are so special that they need to only be concerned with going to school, playing lacrosse and soccer until they graduate college. Costs for all services down there will sky rocket. -Maybe if the price goes up per hour, Americans will start taking the jobs again.

The draft and what Dee is saying are pretty much the same result. No more illegal Mexican border immigration. I guess it's going to get more expensive down there one way or another. Heavy penalties certainly would be the cheaper way to go, but heavy penalties won't stop the narco traffic and the gangs influx and the possible weapons, or terrorism threats. We need troops to stop this ****.

PBL: I understand there are a majority good descent people crossing the border from Mexico from really bad circumstances. It doesn't change the facts though that along with them are a whole raft of problem people we don't need or want. I say we bring in the National Guard to work with a special unit of the FBI to get rid of the gangs.....one city at a time. Thinking about it, I don't think the FBI can give the National Guard orders, but there must be something like that we can do. Some kind of cooperative effort controlled by somebody....not sure how it would work.

 

It's not up to some governor to decide that. It's a federal responsibility. Now the state is stuck with the incarceration costs. I doubt that's what the Arizona people want to pay for directly out of their limited state budget.

It's all a ploy anyway just to get the feds to wake up. Bush didn't do much about immigration for 8 years. He spent a lot of time and effort courting the Spanish vote. They all want the votes, that's why nothing has or likely will be done about it. All the work GW did to lean Spanish voters to the right was lost recently. I bet he's pissed. Not a good move for the party from a political perspective. It's weird deal for the average American that want's the borders secure, or relatively secure.

 

You got that right, for sure FunRide. Wole community economies will collapse. Heck, it has happened, I think In a Florida county? Not just the southern tier either, right here in NJ it is all the same. As I have mentioned before, the relashionship is a pretty amicable one. Locals know that this group of people are contributing and working hard and share common values. Kind of interesting. Not to make it sound perfect, there are tensions, but way less than you would think.

So funny, too. The every kid is a winner mentality. Good point man, I see it all the time. We have been careful with our daughter. She has some real gifts, and some things she isn't so good at. Art. OMG! She knows it and we don't sugar coat it. She is 11 and reads and writes at the 12th grade level. Music and theater, excels. Sports (other than archery)? Not a natural. Wonderful kid, and the only one not in tears when a director rips the crap out of the cast. Dusts off and gets tougher. I see parents of COLLEGE STUDENTS still treating them like little winners even when they drank and smoked their way out of school in their 1st semester as Freshman.

I hear you about problems with illegal immigration for sure. Even immunological problems. Crap we havn't seen in generations is re-emerging. And not just bed-bugs.

That is a long border to secure. Can't cross civilian and military lines. Not an easy question. But 2 very different problems, the one being criminal and the other being desperation.

 

Draft solves the length problem. Criminal and desperation get solved when you close it off completely, then let legal immigration happen. Not everybody in dire straights can come here. Just the way it is.

FBI could simply increase in size and take care of the gangs in hard core fashion. Would it be "profiling"......no. It would be an investigation where the courts would decide and ship them back to Peru, Mexico and Ecuador. The gang thing is a very serious and depressing situation.

 

That is a good way to look at the problem. You will never really stop the masses if there are jobs out there to be had. If you stop the employment oppurtunitys you stop the flood. Apply for your visa and wait your turn and then come on over and get to work.
Well Ross Perot had an idea. Build a solid wall across the entire border and staff it with The National Guard.
Hmmm I think I like holding business owners responsible.

Now the bad boys are another issue. They just happened to carve out a territory and took it away from someone else. I guess the bloods and crips are just not hip at this point. I lived in Southern California in the early 90's and my block in Long Beach was nice and the next block over the Mexican gangs ran and 3 blocks from that were the black gangs and so on. Every night I went to bed with the sounds of gun fire. Point is the trouble makers are part of a much larger problem. Hey are we still involved in the "War on Drugs" ??? If you look at every ethnic group they have a gang or were known for their gangs at one time. (watched the gangs of NY recently)
I think the gangs and drugs are just a sad part of life as we know it.
Now the question is what can we all do about it?

 

With all the talk about Arizona becoming the 2nd coming of the *****, I thought I'd do something our attorney general hasn't done - look up the actual law and read it.

It's fairly simple - says that officers can demand proof of citizenship when conducting routine law enforcement, and arrest the individual if they can't prove they're a citizen. That's about it. It does not alter probable cause in any way. Even our president has exaggerated this in public speeches. Doesn't look like he read the law, either.

If anything, this tends to show how out of control news reporting has become. Heck, from what the media is saying, you'd think they're setting up death camps down there.

And all that yak about LA boycotting AZ - what hypocrites. The city of LA gets most of its power and water from AZ. Plan on cutting that off, do you? Of course California is all against AZ's tightening - the AZ residents pay the price for CA's cheap labor.

Then we have the case of the college girl in GA. In the country illegally, driving without a driver's license (and presumably without insurance), in violation of heaven knows how many laws, and they're protesting her deportation. They're trying to make a poster girl out of a pretty face. As if every illegal alien is a young pretty girl trying to get a college degree, right? There are no ruthless drug runners who'd cut your throat in a heartbeat, are there?

It's fine for Lou Liberal to 'stand up' for the illegals - they're not sleeping in his back yard, or robbing him blind, or turning his neighborhood into a war zone.

 

I just have a hard time fathoming why these protest groups can't grasp the concept of "illegal".

I guess with the exception of the case JohnO gave, would anyone give their car to an unlicensed driver? But these same people don't have any problem handing them the keys to the country, so to speak.

Some groups consider this, and other things done to enforce the law profiling. I prefer to think of it as betting with the odds.

 

Where do you get the idea that "Lou liberal" stands up for illegal immigration? Some apparently do, most don't. Many southern business owners will die on the vine without it. I love how the right (party controllers in the media like Palin, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck) glom onto these issues and claims them. Funny how Bush courted the Spanish vote for years and there was no huge stink like now.

Politics is continuum man, it's a curve where people stand and it's not static over a lifetime. Issues and circumstances change where people sit on that curve. Really there are different curves per issue, then the blend of those positions dictates what you are. It's not a black and white / yes or no situation, although the controllers and preachers would like you to believe that because they rely on you for ratings.

I thought Obama was the ****? Now the right are the ****. Strange how that name and symbol get thrown around so much these days. It's become kind of generic at this point. When you don't like a policy, they become **** infiltrators. Beck was just saying Obama is a **** the other day. How can the right be **** in Arizona and Obama also be a ****. I guess that's sort of like the fact that he's also a commie, socialist who according to Hannity is now in the process of dismantling the military....forget the fact that military budget increase was 3.5%.

 

I see there are groups out there threatening to boycott products and producers that continue to do business with Arizona.

How about a list of those companies not bowing to the pressure of groups supporting the violation of a federal law?

 

If I had the money I'd go on vacation in Arizona just to support them.