Deflecting your desire to answer what is going on with the present administration doesn't make what he's done to this country any better. It's just a tactic. Reagan is dead and gone. We have to live with Obama's decisions now and into the future.

And before you get into George W. Bush, stop blaming him. Unemployment under Obama is worse now then when he became President. The debt was $4 trillion. It's now $9 trillion. 1.9 trillion of it is to the Chinese. We've become the tail and not the head. We're a debtor instead of a lender. We've fallen not risen, in the last 4 years.

 

Age does have it's implications. I couldn't grasp at an early age that my father saw his first model T at age 14,didn't have electricity until he was married,they used kerosene lanterns, his first used Model T was bought for $65,but had to drain the radiator every night in the winter(antifreeze wasn't around then) but lived long enough to see man on the moon plus a few years more. I'm beginning to grasp that now and only someone that's close to another persons age can use that as a reference point as to what life was like and the changes that have happened since then. My earliest memories are of electric street cars with all the sparks plus wondered why there was always two water fountains next to each other and separate entrances and exits,even though I was too young to read or understand at the time? This is one change that has happened for the betterment of the country if we truly are to be regarded as equals.But since then science has become God to many people.Moral break down in almost every aspect of this great country.Disregard for fellow human beings and laws of the land. Just in my lifetime I've seen many changes for the good,but just as many leading toward destruction of this country our fore fathers fought so hard to protect and preserve. And it's not just this country,but the world around us. As a man of faith also I believe what may be happening has been foretold for centuries as a falling away from God himself. This may not be the end or even the beginning of the end,but maybe just the beginning. To be of a certain age to see and experience the changes does have it's implications. You can't open the ears of ones that refuse to hear or open the eyes of ones that refuse to see. If we all could we wouldn't repeat the mistakes of the past and carry them into the future. I'm done with my rant on this subject and yall can keep it up if you want. OPT

 

Nailed it on the head, OPT. What is happening in this country is a moral breakdown that pretty much says to God, "We don't need you. We want to do things our way." God has given us free will and pulls back the protective hedge. In comes all sorts of things that many of us never thought we'd see in this great country. I hate to see the day come but it's been predicted. "But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power.

 

That's exactly right, "We don't need you. We want to do things our way." I'm glad you recognize this, because this is the trend I'm seeing, and I'm glad.

I don't believe in God, and even if he is up there, I would refuse to worship him. It's an entirely human emotion to demand worship from something so small. I see no reason for it.

I have met plenty of good people who didn't believe in God, often the nicest people I meet are devoid of a God. Instead they see all people on Earth as equals, alone in the vast universe. No one is looking out for us, so we have to look out for one another. It's a liberating, and powerful thing.

What is your objection to pleasure? Should we not enjoy the few years we have on this Earth? Is there some requirement that life be wretched and short? Why is there this dichotomy, you can either be a "good" person, in a highly subjective definition of the word, or you can succumb to pleasure? I for one want to enjoy my life. What makes me happy is making those around me happy. I don't need god, or laws, or government to tell me what to do. No Gods, No masters, only people.

 

To reply to your earlier comment, like I said I would; I'm not an Obama supporter. I just prefer him to Romney. The country wouldn't have gotten any better under a Republican either, boom and bust, that's what Capitalism does, always has always will.

I don't like the term Utopia, to me it signifies an end. That we've reached the apex of development. People are far too elastic, too adaptive to ever reach an apex in society. We will constantly develop, and society does with us. There is no liberal utopia, there is a simply a higher state of equality that we have yet to reach. The next step would hopefully be economic equality.

 

You have the right to reject God if you want. No one is taking that away from you.

Seeing all people as equals on more than a, "We're all put here and given a chance to make something of ourselves", basis flies in the face of reality. I don't call a child rapist and a Godly man who looks after the needs of his neighbors equal in any way, shape, or form. One has chosen to love his fellow man, the other has chosen to take advantage of the weaker individual. I also don't consider a person who makes no effort to work but takes welfare from the government with a person who works hard to better their situation, equals. One is stealing from the taxpayers, the other is a contributor. Morality has given us laws to live by that protect us from the encroachments of others. Nature doesn't believe in equality. As one of God's deniers called it, survival of the fittest, it is pretty much a dog eat dog world in nature. Without laws you're relying on the "goodness" of others. Yes, some will treat you well, but others would take advantage of you. Without laws we'd have chaos with people killing each other without threat of punishment. This nation would not have lasted over 200 years without dealing a harsh blow to those who would harm others. Laws are necessary, and whether you wish to believe it or not, our Founding Fathers fashioned our laws on Biblical principles. If you've read the Federalist Papers you'd have a better understanding of the basis for our laws. I highly recommend it. Please don't start in on revisionist history that has the Founding Fathers as nothing more than a godless bunch who had no moral compass to follow.

I have nothing against pleasure. That's one of the main reasons I ride a quad. I hurt my back in 2005 and can't hike, hunt, or mountain climb anymore. The quad gives me a chance to get out in God's country. (Oh sorry, I said that word again. ) But, sometimes pleasure can be used offensively to harm others. A grownup man gets pleasure from having sex with little boys. God calls that sin. Our laws call that a crime. Pleasure, in and of itself says, "Anything, goes. I don't need your laws. So what if my desire harms another. I've pleasured myself." I also am a believer and if God calls something sin, I do too. And, since our laws are based on Biblical principles (or at least used to be) there are norms and there are things that are abnormal. Nothing I'm saying here is stopping you from taking pleasure. We are still free here. I just don't agree with a lot of what is called good now. Also, I am married to a good woman. That is pleasurable and it's within God's prescription for man. You go your way and I'll go mine.

 

That flies in the face of the possibility that a businessman who has turned around dozens of businesses to success couldn't do the same with our economy. Capitalism has a much greater success rate than communism. This country has begun to fail not as a result of capitalism but as a result of government controlling free enterprise. The most recent recession that we are still in started with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, government sanctioned loan institutions, giving loans to low income people who otherwise couldn't afford to buy a home. Sounds nice on paper but if someone can't repay a loan (which they sign a contract saying they will) they shouldn't be given a loan. It's how it had worked previously for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Even though FM and FM began to fail because of loan defaults, the government under Bill Clinton and Barney Frank began to require private banks and loan institutions to make these faulty loans. My wife was an internal bank auditor when these changes came down. So, banks started having a higher rate of loan failures, that led to bank failures, home foreclosures, and all that tails off of home ownership and the ability to get a loan. Without the government pushing banks, through the FDIC to make these loans, we probably would be in much better shape.

You will never have income equality. That says that a guy who slaves 60 hours to make his business work should be on the same income level as the guy who flips hamburgs. If you "made" all people equal, income-wise the first guy isn't going to take on the kind of responsibilities he did when he was making more income and he's not going to work 60 hours either. And the guy flipping hamburgs and not caring how he can better his lot in life shouldn't be stealing from the guy who works harder and has taken the risks necessary to do better. It's a well known joke that forced income equality (it won't happen any other way) leads to people saying, "If they're not going to pay me enough money to do this dreary job, I'm not going to do it." The other one I heard from people who escaped Czechoslovakia, Russia, Poland, and other communist controlled countries was, "They pretended to pay us to work, and we pretended to work." Without reward, there is not going to be effort.


You still haven't told me how old you are.

 

Okay, because you won't answer me, I'm going to make a guess. I believe Lolumad is somewhere around 17-19, is still living in his parents' home, and has a part time job. Please correct me if I'm wrong Lolumad. I'm not trying to insult you in any way, shape, or form. I just think life experience is a far better teacher than public schools. I'm more willing to take advice from a guy who's married, has a couple kids, and a mortgage, on how to make it, than someone who hasn't lived beyond the shelter of his family's home. A person who can deal with the complexities of life, work, and family, and still survive is a far better source of information than a person who's knowledge base is simply what he or she has learned in our learning institutions. I've seen what works and what doesn't. I've been both an employer and an employee. I've been out of work, injured, and had jobs from menial to owning my own business. I've seen peoples' character or lack thereof. I've hired and fired people. I've rewarded and penalized. I've seen what taxation and endless regulations have done to business and have seen what poor businessmen have done to people.

Not saying I'm the know-all to end-all guy. Just saying I look to people who have a) moral character, b) have responsibilities that they don't shrink back from, and c) people who succeed where others have failed.

You will do better in life if you listen to these people rather than idealistic people who have little or no experience in the private sector.

 

based on his responses to topics... I'd have to agree.

experience brings insight & wisdom... most become a better human by triumphing obstacles along the way.

 

I haven't told you how old I was because I wasn't at my computer, I was working on my car.

You don't have to take it to me, and I was trying to avoid telling you my age, I find ageism to be real annoying, and that held true this time as well.

Anyway, don't take it from me, there are a number of adults who share similar ideas as myself. Noam Chomsky, for one, probably the greatest linguist of the 20th century is an Anarchist. How about Subcomandante Marcos, the leader of the Zapatista army, A libertarian socialist.

Perhaps figures from history. Peter Kropotkin, a Russian prince, and an anarchist who was executed under Stalin's orders (If that doesn't prove the soviet union wasn't communist, I just don't know what will).

Friedrich Engels, Socialist who pioneered the philosophy of Materialism, co-wrote the Communist Manifesto, and was an extremely wealthy businessman.

You wouldn't give anything I say any more weight if I was 70 years old, and fought in a world war. It just wouldn't matter, I know because I'm not the only one who thinks this way, there have been millions before me.

I'm not sure how you measure success rate, how about the billion people right now who don't have clean drinking water. I bet they're feeling like Capitalism's success rate isn't so bad. In fact, if you take the most wildly inflated death toll numbers from "Communist" countries (that's a contradiction right there), it's still less than the number of people who have died from war, starvation, disease, all preventable if only everyone had access to the necessities they deserve.